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Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

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Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Chapalagringa on Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:10 am

Our neighbor's dog killed our little yorkie this afternoon. He was little foot's doll and playmate. It happened so fast in less than a minute. This same dog also attacked a toy poodle of an elderly woman as she was walking some time last year. Some Mexican family and friends are telling me the owner of the dog should buy us a new dog. I have to say, not any dog will do. My little guy was a son of a champion, from a breeder in Guadalajara and he wasn't inexpensive. I was careful to research a reputable breeder with healthy dogs.

One friend sent me this:
"El articulo 1428 del código civil dice que son responsables de los daños causados y en la fracción VIII dice q por cualquier causa que sin derecho origina algún daño

La ley está de tu lado!!
Aún así Espero que les respondan cordialmente"

I can't afford another puppy right now and the neighbor said we will buy another and asked what I wanted him to do? This after saying he couldn't do much after I told him how much our dog cost. We've had our dog for 3 years and the price hasn't changed.

What should happen here?
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by CanuckBob on Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:18 am

First of all your neighbors dog should be put down.
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Chapalagringa on Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:48 am

is that Mexican law?
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by CanuckBob on Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:34 am

I have no idea however that dog will probably move onto children next.
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Intercasa on Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:42 am

I wonder if it is the aggressive white pibull that has attacked people and animals there. If it is the case you should file criminal charges and have the dog put down and the owner fined.
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Chapalagringa on Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:09 am

It's a pointer.  We have the attack on video.  I showed it to the neighbor and he asked me what I wanted him to do, said he was responsible.   They are a very nice Mexican family.  The dog isn't trained so he darts out and attacks.  

First I showed him a picture of our dog and told him what I paid for him, then showed him a picture of little foot with him and said he was her dolly. Then I showed him the video of what his dog did. He said said he couldn't do much but he would do something. Then he said we'll buy another one. Then he asked me what I wanted him to do? I said to tell his wife, sleep and think about it. I would like him to buy another exactly like ours. I don't know what to say about what they need to do with their dog but I don't want that to happen again.
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Chapalagringa on Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:48 am

I think it's right that the neighbor buys another puppy exactly like ours. There needs to be a penalty so it doesn't happen to someone else. If he doesn't have the money up front, he can make payments directly to the breeder online. That sound right doesn't it?
The second puppy available is brother to ours.

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx/MLM-520086708-yorkshire-terrier-yorkie-yorky-hijos-nieto-bisnieto-campeone-_JM#stayOnWeb
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by gringal on Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:07 pm

That dog should be put down before it hurts another dog or a human being. Buying another puppy is just providing the neighbor's dog with a new opportunity.

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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Intercasa on Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:18 pm

So were either of the dogs on a leash or is it the law of the jungle there and nobody leashes their baby?
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by kipissippi on Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:52 pm

I agree..the dog should be put down.  It's sad to think that it's more about the cost of the animal than the heart break of losing him.
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by oncesubtle on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:20 pm

[quote="Chapalagringa"]I think it's right that the neighbor buys another puppy exactly like ours.  There needs to be a penalty so it doesn't happen to someone else.  If he doesn't have the money up front, he can make payments directly to the breeder online.  That sound right doesn't it?
The second puppy available is brother to ours."

It sounds like the right decision but what a traumatic event for you to witness. I wish that could also be dealt with and resolved.
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Chapalagringa on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:36 pm

I won't ask the neighbor for anything, not going to replace him.

The neighbor's dog should be put down but who's going to tell them that? My dog wasn't on a leash because he was suppose to be in the house, he snuck out, he tried to get back in. The other dog was out because the neighbor down the street left his gate open. Reviewing the cameras, the dog had been out for awhile. My dog was out a minute when family started calling and looking for him.



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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Trailrunner on Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:51 am

What a sad story, for everyone.
I think they should replace your dog, if that's what you want, and have theirs put down. It will kill again. You will have to be the one to tell them, apparently.
If you don't push to have the dog put down, imagine how you'll feel when it happens the next time. What if it's a child?
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Chapalagringa on Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:26 am

In Mexico, what is the law about this type of situation?
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by brigitte on Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:27 am

No money will replace your dog sorry for your loss. , If he is a pointer he is just prey driven and since he is not trained he will go after any small animal that is what he was bred for. Ask the neighbor to have his dog put down . The money is up to you but it will not replace your dog and the neighbor may feel that he did what he should have done and do not put his dog to sleep.

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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Chapalagringa on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:14 am

Intercasa wrote:So were either of the dogs on a leash or is it the law of the jungle there and nobody leashes their baby?

Are the laws any different whether the dogs are leashed or not?

The fracc does ask that people leash their dogs while walking but it is wide open here, there's no way to police that and strays roam around here just like the cows and horses do any where else in Chapala. When we walk our dogs, they are almost always leashed. The reason why they may have been off leash is during off leash training. Helps keep their training fresh to practice, staying and coming on command.

This morning our neighbor came to visit me, apologized and asked what we thought they needed to do? Thankfully it's been several days to process all of this. Some of what I had mentioned in earlier posts were discussed but there were no definite decisions. I don't know that it's law for them to put down their dog? I never got a straight answer on that. I did mention as one of her options would be for training her dog but as someone else already mentioned that breed is bred for hunting.

I don't know what the law is since my dog snuck out, even though it was for just a minute before noticing he was missing. I think that was her argument, though not aggressive. My dog got out without me knowing and so did hers and it was all an accident. Well, getting out isn't a crime, but my dog didn't go out and kill anything. Dogs get out all the time and don't kill or damage anything.

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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by NEGringos on Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:12 am

My opinion, it's entirely your choice whether to ask for compensation for your dog and to replace or not. For the other dogs owner, I feel the dog should be put down. It has attacked others before killing your dog, regardless of fact they both got loose. It is too aggressive and now has tasted a kill. We in this frac do not need or want an animal with such behavior. As stated before, when will a little child be next? I feel our community should address this and establish a policy for the safety of our people.

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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by gringal on Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:15 am

I'm sorry to hear this story.  Hope it works out for everyone.

There have been some really tragic events around Lakeside, both in the country and in town, and every one of them could have been avoided if the dogs had been either leashed or securely tied on their own property.
My good friend was attacked by three unleashed or tied dogs for no reason while jogging , spent months in a brace and is not yet fully recovered.

When I walk on the Ajijic Malecon, the "entitled" dog owners allow their unleashed dogs free rein.  They claim they obey commands.  Bad joke.  Sometimes the owner and the dog are so far apart that even shouting wouldn't work.

Since there is a leash law, at least for the urban areas around here, what possible excuse do these owners have for disobeying it?  If the reason is that the dog needs exercise........for a small fee, they can take it to the "Free Spirit" park in La Floresta and get all the exercise they need.

In general, there seems to be a very odd attitude among many pet owners in this area:  "my pet is more important than other people".  They bring their dogs to the Farmers Market, restaurants, crowded Tiangius and never give a thought to other people who might be allergic, nervous around dogs or are elderly and might have a fall tangled in one of those long leashes.

I never even considered this kind of behavior when I had a dog, so I'd be interested to hear the reasons why others think it's okay.

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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Sideways on Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:26 am

I wish the Tianguis would ban dogs. There is simply not enough walking space for people and having to watch for dogs and leashes is dangerous.

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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by gringal on Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:33 am

Sideways wrote:I wish the Tianguis would ban dogs.  There is simply not enough walking space for people and having to watch for dogs and leashes is dangerous.  

Agreed on that one. I had a close one there, myself.
I wish the cash-strapped local government would post someone near the bandstand on the Ajijic Malecon and hand out fines to the owners who feel so free to ignore the law. Maybe some pothole fixing money could result and some behaviors changed.

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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by lunateak on Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:51 am

gringal wrote:I'm sorry to hear this story.  Hope it works out for everyone.

There have been some really tragic events around Lakeside, both in the country and in town, and every one of them could have been avoided if the dogs had been either leashed or securely tied on their own property.
My good friend was attacked by three unleashed or tied dogs for no reason while jogging , spent months in a brace and is not yet fully recovered.

When I walk on the Ajijic Malecon, the "entitled" dog owners allow their unleashed dogs free rein.  They claim they obey commands.  Bad joke.  Sometimes the owner and the dog are so far apart that even shouting wouldn't work.

Since there is a leash law, at least for the urban areas around here, what possible excuse do these owners have for disobeying it?  If the reason is that the dog needs exercise........for a small fee, they can take it to the "Free Spirit" park in La Floresta and get all the exercise they need.

In general, there seems to be a very odd attitude among many pet owners in this area:  "my pet is more important than other people".  They bring their dogs to the Farmers Market, restaurants, crowded Tiangius and never give a thought to other people who might be allergic, nervous around dogs or are elderly and might have a fall tangled in one of those long leashes.

I never even considered this kind of behavior when I had a dog, so I'd be interested to hear the reasons why others think it's okay.

Gringal, you've answered your question. "Entitled" is the operative word. Many people suffer from GES, Gringo/a Entitlement Syndrome....
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Chapalagringa on Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:07 pm

Even I agree with the dogs in the tianguis.  I tripped and hurt my ankle on one not too long ago because someone thought that in the crowded stand it was alright to let their chunky dog get in the way, very annoying.  The owner was Mexican so it's not just expats and their dogs.  

As far as the fracc, unless there's a law, which I'm asking about, I can't see there's any way to stop roaming dogs, especially since other animals roam here.  Our fracc is huge and wide open.  There's one house that I think a Mexican lady has 16 dogs!  The yard is torn up with broken down furniture on the front porch, dogs everywhere, it really is disgusting.

Anyone know Mexican law or is there any regarding dogs?  If not, we can "think and should" all we want.          

From this posted earlier, sent to me by a Mexican friend, is all the law that I know of,

"El articulo 1428 del código civil dice que son responsables de los daños causados y en la fracción VIII dice q por cualquier causa que sin derecho origina algún daño"

Which states that there is liability for damages caused.

I just found the rest of this law which a Mexican friend sent to me, it stands for Guadalajara, not sure if it stands here in Chapala:

REGLAMENTO SANITARIO DE CONTROL Y PROTECCIÓN A LOS ANIMALES PARA EL MUNICIPIO DE GUADALAJARA
Artículo 129.
Los perros considerados como agresivos o entrenados para el ataque, que transiten por la vía pública, deberán ser acompañados por sus dueños, poseedores o entrenadores, siendo sujetados con correa o cadena corta, con un máximo de un metro con veinticinco centímetros de longitud y con un bozal adecuado para su raza, que impida la apertura de la mandíbula para morder, dicho tránsito deberá de ser solo cuando sea totalmente necesario, de lo contrario será transportado mediante los medios adecuados y sujetándose a los señalamientos de este reglamento para tal efecto.

google translate
Dogs considered as aggressive or trained for attack, transiting through the streets, must be accompanied by their owners , owners or trainers , being restrained on a leash or short chain with a maximum of one meter and twenty centimeters long and an appropriate muzzle for your race, that prohibit opening the jaw to bite , such transit should be only when absolutely necessary , otherwise it will be transported by appropriate means , and subject to the signs of this regulation to that effect.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's true, had the dog been muzzled, it couldn't have killed my dog with one bite but there dog isn't trained.  It doesn't say it's illegal that your dog get loose, meaning my little dog or a dog that does no harm.  Actually, the law needs to be modified because if you have a personal protection dog, what good will it do if it can bite to protect you Shocked   Some people have met my dog and he is very well behaved but if I were in trouble, he knows what to do.
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by gringal on Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:21 pm

The leash law applies to public areas. It was enacted fairly recently and part of a animal cruelty protection law.

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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Chapalagringa on Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:44 pm

I don't know if this is current or why it says it's from a facebook page but I can't imagine it being much different.  Here are the animal laws for Chapala, Jalisco

https://m.facebook.com/notes/chapala-proanimals/ley-de-protecci%C3%B3n-a-los-animales-para-el-estado-de-jalisco/197777196922513/

Artículo 24.- El dueño del animal tiene la responsabilidad de los daños que le ocasione a
terceros.

Las indemnizaciones correspondientes serán exigidas mediante el procedimiento que señalen las leyes aplicables, pero, además, el responsable deberá ser sancionado administrativamente en los términos de este ordenamiento.
google translate

Article 24. The owner of the animal is responsible for any damages you cause a Third parties.

The corresponding compensation will be required by the process indicate applicable Laws, but ,: addition, should be sanctioned administratively responsible
in the terms of this order.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's also an article there regarding noise and odor

Artículo 25.- La propiedad o posesión de cualquier animal obliga al responsable a inmunizarlo contra enfermedades de riesgo zoonótico o epizoótico propias de la especie.  Asimismo, deberán tomar las medidas necesarias con el fin de no causar molestias a sus vecinos por ruido y malos olores.

google:
Article 25. The property or possession of any animal obligation to charge one immunize

Risk against zoonotic diseases typical of the species or epizootic.

Likewise, should take the necessary measures in order to cause no discomfort ITS
neighbors from noise and odors.

This will be a shock to some of you.  I read in the paper that the fedracion canino fila mexico, in Monterrey last year, was trying to pass a law that dogs were surgically debarked so they wouldn't bother the neighbors!  It didn't or hasn't passed.
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Re: Neighbor's Dog Kills My Dog

Post by Flamingo on Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:42 pm

First, Pointers are not hunting dogs in the sense that they attack small prey. THey are bred to locate the prey and show the hunter where it is, not kill it.

Clearly the FRAAC should be backing you up on this, but they have shown themselves to be unwilling to handle dog related issues. Witness the pit bulls who have attacked a cow and at least 3 people with no consequence.

If you look at it as a property issue - the neighbor's irresponsible actions caused you a monetary loss - it becomes pretty straight forward.


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