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Trouble in Mezcales?

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Re: Trouble in Mezcales?

Post by CanuckBob on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:20 am

Given the concerns, I don't understand why anyone would want to develop anything up there at this point. There is a lot of open land between Chapala and Mezcala and even more on the Southside of the lake. Why bother. I highly doubt this is driven by expat expansion as the article suggests. More likely lower budget development for weekender tapatio's.

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Re: Trouble in Mezcales?

Post by CanuckBob on Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:54 am

Here is another article that was posted on this topic.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2017/apr/04/the-american-expats-moving-into-the-mexican-riviera-and-breaking-up-indigenous-communities

Nothing like inciting more Mexican's against American's with "alternative facts"........

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Re: Trouble in Mezcales?

Post by CHILLIN on Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:21 pm

Look, I originally posted this in response to traveller's credible report that her neighbour's home had been broken into, then 2 more break ins in the night. In generally peaceful San Antonio. These could easily be characterised as "petty" thefts. But this was mean't as a possible insight. By the way, someone asked how these evictions of U.S. owned homes would take place, the gardener said "sicarios", returning from the U.S.A. When the native group won their victory out near Mezcala, their were 4 armed daylight robberies in Vista del Lago in one week. Unprecedented I would think.  My Mexican Doctor friend says crime is escalating in Guadalajara at such a pace that police response is not happening at all. He is selling, or renting out, his brand new constructed home, in a nice neighbourhood and moving back to West Chapala. The other day, he had to open carry just to get his Damm car out of his garage.
I don't think anyone is declaring war - but this might be a good time to review your security arrangements, and possibly put in the upgrades that maybe you have been putting off.
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Re: Trouble in Mezcales?

Post by CanuckBob on Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:05 pm

It made no sense in that thread and makes no sense here. Sheer speculation and fear mongering IMO. I would get a new gardener........

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Re: Trouble in Mezcales?

Post by itsme on Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:44 pm


http://paraleloveinte.com/noticias/de-chapala-a-chalacatepec/

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Re: Trouble in Mezcales?

Post by Ezzie on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:24 am

All of these so called "land disputes" seem to be about money - nothing more. Certainly does not seem to be anything to do with preserving culture or the environment. Not unlike the situation in the US and Canada with indigenous land claims. The systems for the registry of land titles in the rural (agrarian) areas of Mexico date back to the post Mexican revolution times and despite the desire of the Federal Government to modernize it, is taking a very long time. The Agrarian Court is the judicial body that has been mandated to resolve many of these disputes but like all institutional entities is hindered by politics and bureaucracy, possibly even some level of corruption.

For a "land dispute" to develop, somebody had to have "sold" a title (legal or illegal) to real property. The real problem occurs when the validity of that sale is questionable. The question that needs to be asked of the seller is by what right or authority did that person or entity have to sell that land in the first place. Was the land part of an ejido or commune and documented as such? The town councils (mesa) of many of these small villages are an "old boys" network in the classical sense (no women or outsiders allowed) and they regard the land associated with their community as communal lands. The "right-to-use" of these lands they wish to control on behalf of the founding families in the area. They do not want to lose control to any outsiders whether they are Mexican or other foreigners. They do not recognize the Municipal jurisdiction nor want to have to pay taxes. So there you have it, discrimination and isolationism.

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Re: Trouble in Mezcales?

Post by brigitte on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:52 am

About money yes and no..

I am involved right now in a project in Chiapas where I have to find a certain type of sand and buy it..
Right now all the sand that I have found that can be used is on ejido , and communal land.. For example I found the sand we need in a place that makes bricks. They have pits with various types of clay and sand.. They are allowed to exploit the land and make bricks but are not allowed to sell the raw material so I cannot buy the sand from these people. To make the bricks they make a paste of sand, clay and horse poop.. I ask if I could buy that paste and it seems that yes I can....The land cannot be sold because it has all been divided..and some of the resources can be sold, like the wood from the pines but not the sand... dealing with these ejidos can be really tricky..
In some other places the wood can be used for personal use but cannot be sold and so on..

It is more than discrimination and isolationism it is also how to manage the resources from the land by the family or communities who originally owned the land.
I also see plenty of corruption in the running and handling of those communal lands..

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