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as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

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as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Sherman on Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:17 pm

Today, someone mentioned to me that there was a recent presentation at LCS by a federal level Transito (spelling) official who basically said:

There is no federal level requirement/restriction for people who have a permanente in owning/driving a foreign plated car.

Did anyone on this board hear that presentation?

If true, does that mean the State of Jalisco can have and enforce a state-level requirement? And, if so, can we challenge or ignore it?

If you can share any experience, references, insight, legal citations, etc. please do so.

And, please don't tell me to 'just consult with an attorney.' I already know here that most of the attorneys and notarios are not very familiar with most federal laws/regulations, or laws/regulations of other states. I've had those conversations with local people. Maybe someone in Guad who is more experienced might know ... but don't know of anyone off hand. So, if someone can rec. I'l be willing to talk with the person.

Thanks ....

S.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by viejito on Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:17 pm

Yeah,attorneys are basically useless in Mexico. Web boards always have better info so if you get one yes answer, just go for it. Just buckle up cowboy.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by RickS on Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:36 pm

Don't know what meeting you might be referring to, but.....

NO, a Permanente CANNOT own a foreign plated vehicle in Mexico. Period. It is Mexican Law and not subject to modification by a State or a transito.

If you are already Permanente and still have a foreign plated vehicle in Mexico, it is here illegally. It should have been removed before one became Permanente. There is only one legal way to drive it out of Mexico and that is with a SAT document called Retorno Seguro, Safe Return. Once that document is obtained one has 5 business days to drive the vehicle out of Mexico. Some drive them out without the document but that carries some risks (as does just driving it around Lakeside once Permanente).

With respect to selling the vehicle.... NO foreign vehicle, whether owned by a Permanente or otherwise, may be sold within Mexico. Illegal.

The go-to attorney at Lakeside is Spencer McMullen in Chapala. He is VERY versed in the laws that you will potentially be inquiring about, including the vehicle laws. You would be wise to contact him pronto if you are Permanente AND still have/drive a foreign plated vehicle in Mexico. He can assist you with getting the Retorno Seguro. See ChapalaLaw.com

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Sherman on Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:30 am

I'm wondering if anyone on this board heard the presentation at LCS? I don't know the date it occurred, but was told it is not long ago. My experience with LCS is that they typically don't 'vet' presentations, or do very little ... and have in the past gotten people for presentations who provided incorrect, invalid information. Am wondering is this was just more of the same?

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by lakeside7 on Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:58 am

Today, someone mentioned to me that there was a recent presentation at LCS by a federal level Transito (spelling) official who basically said:

Rather than blame LCS, why not consider your source as suspect, or did you hear correctly from SOMEONE!!!!

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Sherman on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:31 am

lakeside7, it sounds like you might be in a position at LCS to find out who the speaker was, and the date. I'll be glad to follow up once I get a name and contact information of the speaker.

Thanks.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by addtocart on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:04 am

After all this time, and all the people losing money on various scams, there are some who are still chasing the magical "legal" way to keep the car in Mexico.
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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by gringal on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:17 am

addtocart wrote:After all this time, and all the people losing money on various scams, there are some who are still chasing the magical "legal" way to keep the car in Mexico.

Yep.  I know of one well-known couple who decided to have the wife stay on temporary with the beloved car in her name, while the husband went permanente and got a Mexican plated car.  All in order to keep the car.  Some things, IMO, are just more trouble than they're worth, but there are plenty of people who think otherwise. CARLOVE can be a problem. Very Happy

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by CanuckBob on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:21 am

Perhaps there is no "Federal Regulation" because this is all regulated at the State level. I do recall people "nationalizing" vehicles with some sort of Federal plate because they didn't meet the requirements at the state level however I think Spencer said this wasn't entirely legal.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Sherman on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:29 am

CanuckBob wrote:Perhaps there is no "Federal Regulation" because this is all regulated at the State level. I do recall people "nationalizing" vehicles with some sort of Federal plate because they didn't meet the requirements at the state level however I think Spencer said this wasn't entirely legal.

Bob, thanks very much. This is the kind of input I'm wanting and would like more of if available.

If it turns out that the information from the speaker is 'not quite legal' or not 'legal' in Jalisco, it makes me wonder why LCS would have such a speaker as it just muddies the water.

There is supposed to be someone at the American Legion who knows the speaker ... so I'll follow-up there.

S.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by RickS on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:39 am

Bob is probably talking about Estado Mexico plates which some people (fools?) put on their cars because they 'heard' that this was a way to circumvent the requirements. Yep, it was a scam. With respect to that attempt, let me tell you that a friend in Playa del Carmen just told me last week that the Federal police there are cracking down on those 'illegal' Estado Mexico plates and collecting big fines (actually it is going into their pockets!) from both Mexicanas and Gringos. Fines of 20,000 pesos to one of his Mexican friends and $1,000 US to Gringos. He knew personally of 4 people who had the honor of giving up their money to them.

So, yes, carry on trying to circumvent the requirement to remove foreign plated vehicles. A smart person would just call Spencer McMullen at Chapala Law to get accurate info about this subject.... but I suspect that this is not going to happen in this case.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by CanuckBob on Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:06 am

Yes, that is what I was referring to although it really has nothing to do with a permanent resident keeping a "foreign" plated vehicle. On the other side of that coin, I think it is only a matter of time before Mexico doesn't even allow temporary residents to keep a foreign plated vehicle here.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by RVGRINGO on Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:35 am

Sherman,
Are you just waiting to hear what you want to hear, or are you looking for the answer to your question?
The answer has been given: A person with a Residente Permanente visa may not keep a foreign plated car in Mexico. He may only drive one, if it belongs to, and was imported by, a member of his immediate family.
That seems simple enough to understand, but you may wish to consult with Spencer at Chapala Law for definitive confirmation.
If you have such a visa, and still have a foreign plated car, you should put it in your garage immediately and not drive it until you have the Retorno Seguro (Spencer can help you get it) and then immediately remove it from Mexico. Without that document, your insurance may well be invalid.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Trailrunner on Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:57 am

A few years ago, when this all hit the fan, I had a J car with CA plates and Lewis and Lewis insurance. I spoke to L and L when they sent me a renewal notice and asked if I renewed with my CA plated J car and Residente Permanente would they still cover me in the event of an accident. They very clearly said NO. In short, they would have taken my money for renewal, like all the ins companies around here would, but would NOT have paid when needed.

It's really that simple.
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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Smartalex on Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:24 pm

Here's a clue: When you drive into Mexico on a tourist or temporary visa, the Mexican government is considerate enough to issue a temporary importation permit (TIP) for the vehicle. What part of "temporary" do you not understand?
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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Intercasa on Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:52 pm

Foreign cars need a valid permit to be in Mexico. Only temporary or tourist can temporarily import cars and only temporary can extend if they renew their temporary on time. As permanents cannot renew, their permits are invalid and therefore neither they nor anyone else can drive their cars. These cars should be kept off the road and either taken out of Mexico with the person using a retorno seguro (which we can now get in 2 days) which gives you 5 business days to leave, the car could be nationalized (we dont do it and many do it improperly so beware), or sell your car to a tourist or temporary and we will get them a temporary import permit in their name.
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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by CHILLIN on Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:56 pm

The Federal part of the law you are violating is a customs violation reflected in one of your vehicle documents called Pedimento. Without a Pedimento, the vehicle will become more difficult, but not impossible, to sell in Mexico The loss of your TIP bond was to be the punishment. If you became an immigrant to Mexico, you were no longer able to own a foreign plated vehicle. The shortest path to become an immigrant, was the annual renewal of a FM-2 visa for four years- which was much more expensive than the much more common FM-3 visa. Very few were becoming immigrants. With FM-3 you could drive your foreign plated vehicle for years with U.S. insurance, but liability coverage only. Then, for reasons which have never come to light, a FM-2 visa automatically became an immigrant visa, and if you didn't like that, you had to leave the country to get a temporary visa and renew annually.

In this area of Mexico, at least, the current priority of police is guns, escaped criminals and drug trafficking. Foreign plates/customs violations are way down on their list of priorities.

With over 2 million foreign or illegally plated vehicles in Mexico, it is a big mess. Many predict some sort some sort of amnesty program to come into effect the next election cycle - which is next year. There have been two previous amnesty programs, always announced in election years (every 6 years in Mexico)
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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by slainte39 on Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:09 pm

Sherman wrote:

If it turns out that the information from the speaker is 'not quite legal' or not 'legal' in Jalisco, it makes me wonder why LCS would have such a speaker as it just muddies the water.
S.

Because many new people use the LCS to bridge the gap to gain knowledge about living here. Rolling Eyes
Kind of resembles US political rallies.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Sherman on Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:50 pm

slainte39 wrote:
Sherman wrote:

If it turns out that the information from the speaker is 'not quite legal' or not 'legal' in Jalisco, it makes me wonder why LCS would have such a speaker as it just muddies the water.
S.

Because many new people use the LCS to bridge the gap to gain knowledge about living here. Rolling Eyes
Kind of resembles US political rallies.

If LCS is not willing to vet their speakers, and this has been a continuing problem for a long time, it might be a better community service if they would just stop sponsoring speakers rather than adding to the problem.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:11 pm

Sherman wrote:
slainte39 wrote:
Sherman wrote:

If it turns out that the information from the speaker is 'not quite legal' or not 'legal' in Jalisco, it makes me wonder why LCS would have such a speaker as it just muddies the water.
S.

Because many new people use the LCS to bridge the gap to gain knowledge about living here. Rolling Eyes
Kind of resembles US political rallies.

If LCS is not willing to vet their speakers, and this has been a continuing problem for a long time, it might be a better community service if they would just stop sponsoring speakers rather than adding to the problem.

Just wondering if you have evidence of the speaker's ineptitude other than what someone told you s/he heard at that meeting? I mean, what if the someone misunderstood?
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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Flamingo on Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:24 am

LCS sometimes sponsors speakers who are chosen because they are believed to be competent. Evaluating qualifications can be tricky. They tell you they have a degree or held a certain job or position and you believe them. Actual verification is expensive and made more difficult with current laws. Unrealistic that LCS is going to verify qualifications.

They also rent space to speakers and are in no way responsible for these people's qualifications.
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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Sherman on Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:26 am

Lady Otter Latté wrote:
Sherman wrote:
slainte39 wrote:
Sherman wrote:

If it turns out that the information from the speaker is 'not quite legal' or not 'legal' in Jalisco, it makes me wonder why LCS would have such a speaker as it just muddies the water.
S.

Because many new people use the LCS to bridge the gap to gain knowledge about living here. Rolling Eyes
Kind of resembles US political rallies.

If LCS is not willing to vet their speakers, and this has been a continuing problem for a long time, it might be a better community service if they would just stop sponsoring speakers rather than adding to the problem.

Just wondering if you have evidence of the speaker's ineptitude other than what someone told you s/he heard at that meeting? I mean, what if the someone misunderstood?

I am in the process now of following up to the extent I can regarding the speaker and content of the information. Whatever turns up, I'll post here.

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by viejito on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:12 am

Flamingo wrote:LCS sometimes sponsors speakers who are chosen because they are believed to be competent. Evaluating qualifications can be tricky. They tell you they have a degree or held a certain job or position and you believe them. Actual verification is expensive and made more difficult with current laws. Unrealistic that LCS is going to verify qualifications.

They also rent space to speakers and are in no way responsible for these people's qualifications.

Yeah, like a certain "Medical Director"?

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by Trailrunner on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:21 am

lol
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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

Post by helohfe on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:26 am

Our boy Sherm will never get it..I am especially amazed at his gullibility to run with a 2nd hand rumor..After all the legitimate "NFW" responses..Still charging the Windmill!

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Re: as a permanente, must we sell our foreign plated cars?

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