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Economic Refugees

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by brigitte on Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:07 am

300 or 700 pesos a month today, I do not think so .. A student from Chiapas who stayed with us just got a room in Guadalajara for 1200 pesos a month, another one who is at our house right now is also looking and good luck with 300 or 700 pesos a month. He has not found any of those yet.
You can get a small 2 bedroom house for 2500 pesos a month  if you know someone.. At 300 or 700 pesos a month , it makes Guafaljara cheaper than towns in CHiapas so frankly I do not believe it. The okace I am talking about has no foreigners living there.

The idea of spending your old age in a little dump somewhere in a foreign country where you do not speak the language is really depressing. Better g back to the States where you speak the language and can get some type of help.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by CanuckBob on Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:12 am

Agreed. The average price of a condo in Guadalajara is now $189,000 USD. Maybe $3000 pesos per month and even that would probably not be a place where most would want to live. I have seen a few places here that friends have rented for around $300 USD and I certainly wouldn't live in any of them. Very "Mexican" they say...….yeah poor Mexican. I wouldn't live in a shanty in Canada either.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Kiri on Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:27 am

[quote="Trailrunner"]They could always move to San Nicolas or San Luis Soyatlan or Mazamitla or Tizapan al Alto etc . . . All fine places to live. And cheap.

They don't really want to move to México, they just want to live in Ajijic. [/quoWha]

What a broad and unfeeling statement to make, dismissing a group of people, who through no fault of their own, got priced out. How would you know that they don't want to live in Mexico? Only Ajijic? And without a car, how do they scout out rentals in these far flung areas. I suggest you try going without a car, and go to some of these areas to try it out for yourself.

A little empathy please. Who of us knows, what circumstances may change for one of us, that we may find ourselves in a similar situation.
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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Lucky Girl on Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:36 am

I hope nobody checks out Tizapan! We love it just the way it is, Mexican, no Gringos of any type, friendly locals, dependable electricity, good medical/ dental care, good shopping for fresh stuff, decent internet. Most things are more reasonable , some things we can't get without going to Guadalajara or Sahuayo, or online from Amazon. Thank God, rentals are not easy to find here!

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by suegarn on Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:52 am

Kiri wrote:
Trailrunner wrote:They could always move to San Nicolas or San Luis Soyatlan or Mazamitla or Tizapan al Alto etc . . . All fine places to live. And cheap.

They don't really want to move to México, they just want to live in Ajijic. [/quoWha]

What a broad and unfeeling statement to make, dismissing a group of people, who through no fault of their own, got priced out. How would you know that they don't want to live in Mexico? Only Ajijic? And without a car, how do they scout out rentals in these far flung areas. I suggest you try going without a car, and go to some of these areas to try it out for yourself.

A little empathy please. Who of us knows, what circumstances may change for one of us, that we may find ourselves in a similar situation.

I agree with Kiri. Circumstances can change in a heartbeat (or lack of one). One day, you're a couple living on two working incomes, then the next, you've lost your partner and your job (because we worked together) in one tragic moment. You pick yourself up and do the best you can, but rental prices have gone up substantially in the last year. Going from living in a comfortable two bedroom house to a single room isn't easy. And even a single room is getting out of my price range!

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by slainte39 on Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:05 pm

Trailrunner wrote:

This woman also said she knows a woman who works at one of the bazaars who says it is a steady stream of single women selling all their stuff and going back because they can't  afford to live here.

That is just as misleading as the "information" that brought them here in first place.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by gringal on Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:22 pm

Lucky Girl wrote:I hope nobody checks out Tizapan! We love it just the way it is, Mexican, no Gringos of any type, friendly locals, dependable electricity, good medical/ dental care, good shopping for fresh stuff, decent internet. Most things are more reasonable , some things we can't get without going to Guadalajara or Sahuayo, or online from Amazon.  Thank God, rentals are not easy to find here!

You just have been given the top award for NIMBYISM today. Geesh!! Rolling Eyes

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Trailrunner on Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:23 pm

You guys are right, sue, you personally had that happen to you right? Change happens.

IMO, the simple answer is one would have to move farther out a bit. Last month I was offered a 3 bedroom house in San Nicolas for 3000 pesos. My rent in SA is 4000 and I love my Mexican house, barrio, and friends and neighbors.

Hahaha Lucky Girl! I agree, Tizapan is a wonderful pueblo and I may move out there too one day but San Nicholas is currently top of my escape plan list.

Ajijic has become so desirable that if you can't afford to live there, you can't afford to live there. Move to Joco. Move to San Juan. Move to Santa Cruz. We can't always get what we want. . .

Agree Slainte.

PS-no dirt floors Very Happy


Last edited by Trailrunner on Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by gringal on Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:29 pm

I was "gentrified out" of nearly all the places I lived in the states for years: San Franisco, Marin and so on. I know the feeling. When I was finally in a position to buy a house, I did so with alacrity...but that's not always a possibility for people. I feel a great deal of empathy for the one first referred to who probably didn't move here three years ago based on information from Facebook. Isn't that a fairly recent phenomenon?

I wish these people luck in finding what they need NOB. They'll need it.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by RVGRINGO on Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:31 pm

We moved out of Ajijic in 2004, in favor of Chapala. We were happy in Chapala for the next decade, for all of the usual reasons. Today, if we were able to return to "lakeside", I would probably choose Jocotopec or Ixtlahuacan de los Membrillos.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by brigitte on Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:33 pm

3000 pesos in a vllage t not dirt cheap ad t is 10 times more than the 300 esos price quoted in Guadalajara. If you speak Spanish and are willing to get out of the places poplular with foreignersyou can find a deal but it is important to speak Spanish otherwse you find yourself cut off from just about everything expecially without a car.. Yes buses get old when the are the only mode of transportation to go grocery shopping.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Carry Bean on Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:14 pm

Trailrunner and I both have seen the ones on the Facebook Newbies sites who only listen to others who don’t know any more than they do. If one mentions having trouble making the financials invariably a “helpful” idiot PM’s them to tell them about redepositing the same amount in their account to fake out the necessary income to qualify.

I see some selling their belongings on Beg, Buy, Barter to head back and have overheard in a restaurant a couple women about how they were sold a bill of goods about living here. No, they just heard what they wanted to hear, not the truth. They saw the YouTube videos about living here on $600.00 a month. Don’t burst their bubble.

If people who have been here for several years are NOW concerned about financials, didn’t they go through the FM process or were they doing the semi-annual border run? They should have been grandfathered in.

And has been said, I sure wouldn’t head to a much more expensive place (NOB) with a worse climate rather than to a nice, not so gringo type town with a much better cost of living. But that’s just me. A good lesson is in there to do TRUE research rather than just to hear what you want to hear.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by ferret on Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:27 pm

Agree. We came down with the intention of "trying" it out for a year and rented in Mexico for the duration of that year. We put the equivalent of a one bedroom home worth of stuff in an 8x10 storage unit in Canada, just in case. I like options. Under no circumstances should anyone put all their eggs in one basket until they're absolutely sure. And that includes a vehicle. Why people insist on getting permanente status when they've never LIVED full time through all seasons in a place absolutely scrambles my brains.
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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by gringal on Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:33 pm

ferret wrote:Agree. We came down with the intention of "trying" it out for a year and rented in Mexico for the duration of that year. We put the equivalent of a one bedroom home worth of stuff in an 8x10 storage unit in Canada, just in case. I like options. Under no circumstances should anyone put all their eggs in one basket until they're absolutely sure. And that includes a vehicle. Why people insist on getting permanente status when they've never LIVED full time through all seasons in a place absolutely scrambles my brains.

You have that right. It's a big deal to uproot yourself and move to a foreign country. My husband I came to Mexico with the idea of "trying it out" after doing some serious research on it from much more reliable sources than social media sites. We did join Mexconnect some time before the move and got some very good information from people like Rolly Brook. (R.I.P.) We put necessities in truck and left most stuff in storage in the states "just in case". Got temporal status and four years later, moved on to Permanente. Makes sense to me, anyway.

I can't imagine what people will do who have no vehicle and are priced out of the lakeside area, since the COL is higher in general NOB.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by lakeside7 on Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:59 pm

I am not sure where some of you get the impression that ALL subsidized housing NOB is BAD. I have a friend who because of "financial problems " had to return to Tampa. She now lives in a subsidize high rise, has bus service etc to shopping centre etc and a standard of living better/different then she had at Lakeside. Sadly singles have more difercult y making ends met.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Carry Bean on Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:03 pm

I have no idea how one goes about finding this great subsidized housing but those I know about are crime ridden hellholes. I’m glad there are nicer ones but I would imagine there is quite a waiting list for ones like you describe.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by oncesubtle on Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:32 pm

Sister in law in Kansas, 72 yrs old, hubby died and she had to apply for subsidized housing. Her now house is newish, beautiful, 2 bd 1 ba in a community of her peers and she really likes it. The housing wait list was one year and her monthly payment is less that $600 per month. While not positive I think she gets a break on gas and electric because of her age and income.

Anyone interested can call their city or state and get the answers to all their questions. I imagine benefits vary from region to region.
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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:28 pm

Like everything else, it all depends on where you live. Friend’s mom lives in senior subsidized housing. It is a beautiful place. Her rent is $1200 a month and she is delighted to pay it. This is in Carlsbad CA about six blocks from the beach.
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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by gringal on Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:58 pm

Lady Otter Latté wrote:Like everything else, it all depends on where you live. Friend’s mom lives in senior subsidized housing. It is a beautiful place. Her rent is $1200 a month and she is delighted to pay it. This is in Carlsbad CA about six blocks from the beach.


Carlsbad is a very nice place to live.
"Delighted to pay it" is only if you have the income to afford it. That is more rent than a person is likely to be able to afford here or anywhere if they are on a tight budget, so I doubt this applies to the people we've been talking about.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 pm


"Delighted to pay it" is only if you have the income to afford it. That is more rent than a person is likely to be able to afford here or anywhere if they are on a tight budget, so I doubt this applies to the people we've been talking about.”

That is the point I was making. That woman’s rent in subsidized housing is more than my entire monthly budget. I was not suggesting that people who can not afford to live here should move to Carlsbad.
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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by CanuckBob on Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:06 am

I'm sure the USD to CAD exchange rate is also a problem for many Canadians. Those renting in USD are paying 35% more than they were 6 years ago just in the exchange rate. Factor in the inflation and it's probably closer to 50% more. That was one of the main reasons we decided to buy a place back in 2012 when the CAD was 1.02 to the USD.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Gamina on Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:27 am

brigitte wrote:300 or 700 pesos a month today, I do not think so .. A student from Chiapas who stayed with us just got a room in Guadalajara for 1200 pesos a month, another one who is at our house right now is also looking and good luck with 300 or 700 pesos a month. He has not found any of those yet.
You can get a small 2 bedroom house for 2500 pesos a month  if you know someone.. At 300 or 700 pesos a month , it makes Guafaljara cheaper than towns in CHiapas so frankly I do not believe it. The okace I am talking about has no foreigners living there.

The idea of spending your old age in a little dump somewhere in a foreign country where you do not speak the language is really depressing. Better g back to the States where you speak the language and can get some type of help.

My niece was in Guadalajara last year when she found cheap rent. Her brother and his wife and baby have a rental house on Bandera in SAT that is 2 bedrooms unfurnished for 400 pesos(no dirt floors). These rents are out there but you have to scour around for them.
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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by merry on Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:29 am

lakeside7 wrote:With respect Ronys list is very basic housing, some with dirt floors.

I asked Rony this and he laughed uproariously. He says no, the houses on his list do not have dirt floors.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by gringal on Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:32 am

I think we need to define what an "economic refugee" really is. I have been thinking of such a person as one who moved to Mexico at least partly because the COL was much less than NOB.  So, unless such a person plans to return NOB and go on welfare or move in with relatives, it makes no sense to move at all.

I suspect, as I think Trailrunner mentioned, that most people who move back NOB didn't get enough good information before they moved here and just don't like it as much as they thought they would. That, or they miss family more than they thought they would.

Personally, I miss one NOB thing BADLY:  Streets without back-wrenching potholes!  However, I'm staying until death do us part anyway, and holding out hope that this stuff will get FIXED.

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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Trailrunner on Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:05 am

There is another factor, they can go back to work in the US or find other ways to supplement their SS.

Frankly, I think some of the new "retire to Mexico" crowd aren't really old enough to get SS and retire.
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Re: Economic Refugees

Post by Carry Bean on Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:30 am

I noticed that as well.  Not young as in 40ish though some are, but definitely younger than average retirement age.  Whatever, I hope they find their niche and too bad they wasted some of what is a tight budget  apparently money bing here but better to find out early.

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