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The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

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The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Problem Child on Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:16 pm

Three months ago, I spotted an ad listing four "Specialists" Lakeside. I then saw another large posting congratulating the "Specialists" for having the professional credentials to be allowed to post their ads in the Ojo. One of these was Dra. Sandra Anaya (General Dentist from 2004:32: ).

I knew from my own experiences that Dr. Sandra Anaya is NOT certified or registered as a Specialist in any dental area.

I pointed this out to the Editor who said he would pass the on to the "Publisher." I assume he did; Alexander Grattan is one of the really "Good Guys" Lakeside.

Three months later, I see the same ads.

Feel free to bash/flame me for posting the truth. razberry

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by CanuckBob on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:49 pm

You know this how?

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by ltollefs on Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:07 pm

First, you go after a well respected local vet, and now you aim your vituperation at a local dentist. You know, don't you, Clueless/Eric Blair/Really-Dumb-Guy, that you are known to the community? If go around threatening the livelihood of the wrong people it could bounce back on you.
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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Problem Child on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:06 pm

ltollefs wrote:First, you go after a well respected local vet, and now you aim your vituperation at a local dentist. You know, don't you, Clueless/Eric Blair/Really-Dumb-Guy, that you are known to the community? If go around threatening the livelihood of the wrong people it could bounce back on you.

You're right, if I am wrongfully attacking someone it will come back on me. If I'm not, then people are well warned.

I know what I say from direct observation and research at the official level.


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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:29 pm

“I know what I say from direct observation and research at the official level.”

Why are you not saying what your direct observation was and naming the official site or person you consulted and what it/they said? Then people could verify for themselves what you said. Oh, never mind. I answered my own questions.
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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Problem Child on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:48 pm

Lady Otter Latté wrote:“I know what I say from direct observation and research at the official level.”

Why are you not saying what your direct observation was and naming the official site or person you consulted and what it/they said? Then people could verify for themselves what you said. Oh, never mind. I answered my own questions.

Well Lady O, your point is well taken. I'm sending you a PM. Also one other thing.

Let's stipulate for the purpose of this mental exercise, that I'm the worst person Lakeside, second to none. Does this mean that everything I say must be a lie? Or that I can never be a victim of wrong doing?

I'll tell you what one judge NOB I heard say

: "This man was caught by a citizen while he was attempting to commit a felony. The citizen held the suspect until police arrived. It doesn't matter if the citizen was a decorated war hero or a just released felon. It is not a defense to a criminal charge that "the guy who caught me is a bad guy."

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:00 pm

No, it does not follow that everything you say is a lie. It just gives you less credibility and requires more transparency than from someone who does not have your reputation. Interesting quote you chose all things considered.
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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Problem Child on Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:12 pm

Lady Otter Latté wrote:No, it does not follow that everything you say is a lie. It just gives you less credibility and requires more transparency than from someone who does not have your reputation. Interesting quote you chose all things considered.

You're right about less credibility, however the core point is valid IMO.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by doc holiday on Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:32 pm

It is very easy to verify credentials of doctors here that claim to have a doctorate degree from the USA.  Write the REGISTRAR of the college or university and verify the credentials.
 I did the to one and found out had only attended a 2 week short course.  He even had a fake diploma from the University in the USA.   I am sure that can be done in Guad easily.  The fake diploma is what tipped me off when I went to see him.   Pays to check.   Fake credentials are not uncommon here.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Problem Child on Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:11 pm

doc holiday wrote:It is very easy to verify credentials of doctors here that claim to have a doctorate degree from the USA.  Write the REGISTRAR of the college or university and verify the credentials.
 I did the to one and found out had only attended a 2 week short course.  He even had a fake diploma from the University in the USA.   I am sure that can be done in Guad easily.  The fake diploma is what tipped me off when I went to see him.   Pays to check.   Fake credentials are not uncommon here.

Plus, a three day "vacation" seminar in P.V. doesn't replace the required three YEARS to get a diploma for implants and other specialties

Spencer has said many times in posts that you should check credentials, not just the license..


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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Marrell on Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:30 pm

The federal government has requirements for a doctor who prescribes medications -
which is stringent specifically about advertising. Credentials, etc must be presented and obviously not all doctors have probably bothered.
The State of Jalisco has recently passed the same laws and intends to strictly enforce them. if a doctor has that certification from the federal government then Jalisco certification is not as complicated. However, that ad in the OJO congratulating the dentists in the recent OJO means that those doctors have complied on both levels. Did you notice that there are NO other medical listings or advertisements in the OJO?

The penalties are strict and expensive and lakeside is prime territory.
Both the doctor and the publisher will be heavily fined. If the directory has only the doctors name and phone #,,,, not a problem. But a paid ad for services is another story.
The 2019 LCS Directory has just gone to press - minus the majority of medical advertisers who were unable to comply in time for the deadline.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Problem Child on Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:50 pm

Marrell wrote:The federal government has requirements for a doctor who prescribes medications -
which is stringent specifically about advertising. Credentials, etc must be presented and obviously not all doctors have probably bothered.
The State of Jalisco has recently passed the same laws and intends to strictly enforce them. if a doctor has that certification from the federal government then Jalisco certification is not as complicated. However, that ad in the OJO congratulating the dentists in the recent OJO means that those doctors have complied on both levels. Did you notice that there are NO other medical listings or advertisements in the OJO?

The penalties are strict and expensive and lakeside is prime territory.
Both the doctor and the publisher will be heavily fined. If the directory has only the doctors name and phone #,,,, not a problem. But a paid ad for services is another story.
The 2019 LCS Directory has just gone to press - minus the majority of medical advertisers who were unable to comply in time for the deadline.

Could you please reference the law you cite?

Also, according to the Ministerio Publico, in the Jalisco Penal Code, there is a specific section on Fraud (Sp:Fraude) and that would include taking money through misrepresentations.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Marrell on Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:29 pm

Tomorrow....

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by HelperGuy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:48 pm

Enforcement has gone into effect recently that ensures all medical practitioners include their license numbers in any advertising, or face penalties. All periodical publishers know this and enforce it, lest they be fined.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Problem Child on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:00 pm

HelperGuy wrote:Enforcement has gone into effect recently that ensures all medical practitioners include their license numbers in any advertising, or face penalties. All periodical publishers know this and enforce it, lest they be fined.

This apparently does not cover dentists or any practitioner other than medical doctors.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by HelperGuy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:01 pm

This includes dentists and any practitioner that must be licensed. If you go through a few months back issues of The Guadalajara Reporter, you will notice all ads disappeared... then the last few weeks, back again, with the numbers posted.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Problem Child on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:13 pm

It appears that this only refers to the posting of the license numbers and not proof of a speciality?

But this is for advertising.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Trailrunner on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:31 pm

HG is right. Docs now have to jump through some governmental hoops and register their license with an agency, and get a number. That number is the one that must be in all their ads. It's an effort to crack down on fraudulent practitioners. It's a drag for the Ojo, and as you can imagine the docs are not streaking out the door to get this done. REAL docs.
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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Problem Child on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:44 pm

Personally, I feel it is a very good law. It's too easy for someone to simply say they are a (whatever) professional and keep below the radar.

I wonder what occupations in Jalisco require a license.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Trailrunner on Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:11 pm

Call the Ojo and ask them.
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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by CanuckBob on Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:02 pm

All medical advertising must now display the cedula # as do all our medical based banner ads above.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by Marrell on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:59 am

Jalisco Law:

LEY DE SALUD DEL ESTADO DE JALISCO

TITULO CUARTO – RECURSOS HUMANOS PARA LA SALUD

CAPITULO I – DE LOS PROFESIONALES, TÉCNICOS Y AUXILIARES

Artículo 109. Quienes ejerzan las actividades profesionales, técnicas y auxiliares y las especialidades a que se refiere este Capítulo, deberán poner a la vista del público un anuncio que indique la institución que les expidió el título, diploma o certificado y, en su caso, el número de su correspondiente cédula profesional. Iguales menciones deberán consignarse en documentos, papelería y publicidad que utilicen en el ejercicio de tales actividades.

The entire info in Spanish is 8 pages.  I've also read the law in English but I cannot forward that information.

Basically, two commissions, federal and state oversee the regulations - COFEPRIS and COPRIGJAL.

Advertising in any format must contain the Authorization number from the commission, the name of the educational institution that issued the diploma or certificate, the number (cedula) of their professional credentials and
if applicable their current certificate of specialization. Just a cedula number is not sufficient.

This pretty much includes ALL medical including vet, physical therapy, testing labs
and can include health stores and others.

The fines listed are HUGE....and once an ad has been approved it cannot be altered without further authorization.

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

Post by HoneyBee on Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:42 pm

Yes, Dra Sandra is a great dentist because she fitted a crown for me that came out the very next day.........

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Re: The Ojo del Lago just lost credibility with me.

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