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Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

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Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by funnygirl on Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:36 pm

Our lawyer, in D.F., informed us that if we nationalize we'll lose our US citizenship & S.S., if it's there when we retire. There's a doc signed renouncing our US citizenship.

If we get permament residency we can vote & no longer have to go through the visa renewal process.

A friend of ours nationalized. She was given instructions to only use her MX passport. To go to a MX consulate in foreign countries, if in a crisis. However, they gave her her US passport to enter the US! She has to be a citizen to have a US passport, right?

She doesn't seem concerned that she may lose her S.S.

What's the benifit either way?

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by Rolly on Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:51 pm

"Our lawyer, in D.F., informed us that if we nationalize we'll lose our US citizenship & S.S., if it's there when we retire."

Total bull shit. Not a word of it is true.

"There's a doc signed renouncing our US citizenship."

That is true, but it is meaningless. The document does not renounce your US citizenship. You can renounce if you want to; there is a special procedure to do it, but that document is not it.
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by Intercasa on Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:05 pm

Your lawyer is an idiot. The only way to lose your US citizenship would be to go to the consulate and renounce it. Many people are dual nationals and it doesn't affect their US citizenship.
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by funnygirl on Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:50 pm

what benefit is it for the lawyer to tell us that? I thought maybe there was something more in it for him if we weren't nationals, idk.

What the heck does this paper that doesn't mean anything mean say? That seems wild to me. Why would you sign something that doesn't mean anything?

This lawyer, from D.F., said he hated it that the attorneys were misleading the expats that they weren't losing their citizenship and jeopardizing their s.s. What would they have to gain for it if it's true?

I'm still leaning towards naturalization, as I have very little into s.s. & question whether it'll be here when we retire, the way things are going nob.

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by David on Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:01 pm

When in doubt, get a second opinion. Just because he's an Abogado doesn' t mean he knows everything about every legal thing. IMHO, Rolly and Intercase are correct.
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by funnygirl on Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:21 pm

i sure hope they are!

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by raqueteer on Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:10 pm

Question, what are our rights here as FM2 holders. I just witnessed a nasty situation in which a person we know was threatened and had his FM3 confiscated by immigration officials just because some woman had a grudge against him and made a complaint. He has to go to Guad tomorrow so will find out more later.
I feel this could happen to any of us, and that we might lose everything. Home, bank account etc. all based on nothing but hot air and lies.
If this is true, and we are at risk, I'm getting out of dodge.

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by CanuckBob on Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:35 pm

Was the woman who filed the complaint a Mexican or gringo? What was the nature of the complaint?
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by Rolly on Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:02 pm

During the building of my Las Casas project, a neighbor across the street objected to the noise and the smell of the paint, so he called INM to challenge my right to be here. The INM guy told the man "We know Sr Brook, and his papers are in order." That was the end of that.
Then the jerk challenged the citizenship of my building partner despite the fact that the jerk had know Enrique all his life. The guy had once denounced Enrique for pissing on his car. Enrique was able to show evidence that he was in Los Angeles at the time. Enrique said he wished he had pissed on the car.
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by raqueteer on Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:42 pm

CanuckBob wrote:Was the woman who filed the complaint a Mexican or gringo? What was the nature of the complaint?

The officials would not tell him, however he believes it was a Mexican National who has done this to him before.

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by raqueteer on Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:54 pm

Rolly wrote:During the building of my Las Casas project, a neighbor across the street objected to the noise and the smell of the paint, so he called INM to challenge my right to be here. The INM guy told the man "We know Sr Brook, and his papers are in order." That was the end of that.
Then the jerk challenged the citizenship of my building partner despite the fact that the jerk had know Enrique all his life. The guy had once denounced Enrique for pissing on his car. Enrique was able to show evidence that he was in Los Angeles at the time. Enrique said he wished he had pissed on the car.


Sh$t happens, however here's the really big question, what if this complaint had some grease, (money changed hands)? The guy owns a lot of property here. BTW his papers were in order as well, and they were confiscated.
The degree of aggressiveness used was far in excess of what was necessary. Screaming shouting and threats. A total and complete verbal assault, which had the possibility of turning physical.
Head honcho, screamed, at me, I AM THE LAW after I asked him a simple question.
This sort of treatment may well result in an exodus of foreigners. Gangs, crime etc. don´t scare me in the least. Legal (?) confiscation of property does.
My understanding is you can be kicked out of the country on 24 hour notice, how are you going to defend yourself if you're not in the country?

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by hockables on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:22 pm

Perhaps someone like LCS should develope some sort of lobbiest coalition to represent " Gringos " treated unfairly... use the power of the Internet :)

Gringos have Grease too ya know...

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by David on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:51 pm

Perhaps Intercasa can shed some light on this topic. I seriously doubt that one can be deported in 24hrs. simply based on a statement of a Mexican citizen. The human rights commission wouldn't stand for that.
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by Rolly on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:58 pm

A non-citizen can be deported for any reason or for no reason, and it is not subject to appeal.

Article 33 of the Constitution says:
"...the Executive of the Union has the exclusive right to expel from the national territory, immediately and without necessity of judicial proceedings, all foreigners whose stay it judges inconvenient."
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by David on Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:05 pm

Rolly, who is the "Executive of the Union?"
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by Rolly on Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:44 pm

The Executive of the Union is the president who can and does delegate authorities to others. So basically it means the government.
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by David on Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:48 pm

Gracias.
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by CanuckBob on Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:15 pm

So they can boot you out for little or no reason but can they expropriate your property too?
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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by funnygirl on Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:03 pm

Sounds like nationalizing is the way to go to me!

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by raqueteer on Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:15 pm

Well guys, thanks for all the comments. I was afraid that deportation was arbitrary, and not open for discussion, since it has been heard many times as a threat to many expats by nationals who are pi$$ed off, whether reasonably or otherwise...
Inconvenience sounds a bit nebulous to me. Hey if somebody wants your property, you might be considered an "inconvenience".

Will be looking into an Amparo, and barring some sort of assurance from the authorities that we will be treated fairly, would seriously consider bailing.

Love it here, but am not willing to continue risking all just to stay. I can always rent and remove all investments to somewhere safer.

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by raqueteer on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:29 am

Story over. The head honcho in Guad apologized, gave him back his papers and asked if he'd like to make a formal complaint against the abusive official. Apparently this happens all the time here. I wish that the people making these unsubstantiated complaints would be penalized in some way. The woman apparently said that he was illegal. Obviously untrue since all his documents were in order.

Does anyone here have any ideas on how we can protect ourselves against these vicious people?

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by funnygirl on Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:09 pm

Don't talk to them.

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by gringal on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:51 pm

Rolly or Intercasa can probably verify this, but it is my understanding that you can apply for and receive "Immigrado" status after 5 years on an FM2. This does not give you the privilege of voting, but you are considered a permanent resident at that point and no longer have to apply for a yearly FM2 and pay fees.

There is no crystal ball to predict whether Social Security will be solvent by the time you are old enough, but let's just say that the political fallout from discontinuing it would be catastrophic.

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by funnygirl on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:07 pm

Interesting, I thought there's only 2 years needed w/an FM2 and then you can either apply to be nationalized or a permant resident. Our lawyer told us we'd be able to vote w/the permanent residency. Hubby's paying into SS so he has more at risk if he nationalizes and can't collect the ss, if it's there. I'd personally rather nationalize having my life here.

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Re: Permanent residency vs. Nationalization

Post by gringal on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:14 pm

funnygirl wrote:Interesting, I thought there's only 2 years needed w/an FM2 and then you can either apply to be nationalized or a permant resident. Our lawyer told us we'd be able to vote w/the permanent residency. Hubby's paying into SS so he has more at risk if he nationalizes and can't collect the ss, if it's there. I'd personally rather nationalize having my life here.

I think you need a second lawyer opinion.

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