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I hate digital...Why?

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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by viajero on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:47 am

What a mind numbing thread,just put the freaking CD in your player and listen to your music.


Last edited by viajero on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by HelperGuy on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:51 am

Well, that's why Tech Talk was started... so those of you not interested in this kind of conversation don't have to be exposed to it, and those who are, can enjoy themselves.

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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by Zedinmexico on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:06 pm

casi nada wrote:
Zedinmexico wrote:
And you probably think a Laserdisk is digital it is not it is an analog medium along with a CD disk.

A CD has pits in it but it represents an analog signal. A DVD represents digits directly off the disk. A CD players takes this analog signal
and converts it to digits. Yes CD players have D to A converters in them. I am not yanking your chain. It takes the analog
signal off the CD and converts it to digital. Every CD player I have had has a D to A converter in it and yes DVD player have D to A convertors.

Z

Please show me any evidence at all that an analog signal is produced by a CD player before DAC processing. And don't just start talking, please. I will shut up if you can link to any study, article, or whatever, that will show us that an analog signal is produced in a CD player at the time of reading of the disc. Anything. I beg you. Anything.

As humans, we perceive the world in analog. Everything we see and
hear is a continuous transmission of information to our senses. This
continuous stream is what defines analog data. Digital information, on the other hand, estimates analog data using only ones and zeros.


For example, a turntable (or record player) is an analog device,
while a CD player is digital. This is because a turntable reads bumps
and grooves from a record as a continuous signal, while a CD player only
reads a series of ones and zeros.


Please refute this.




"The pits and lands themselves do NOT directly represent the zeros and ones of BINARY data."
Wikopedia on CD's.


Zed speaking refuted as requested.

Once again a CD disk is analog. A DVD disk is digital. A Laserdisk disk is analog for the same reason a CD disk is.
There is a step on a CD player to take the analog data from the CD disk and make it digital than it goes to the
D to A convertor. So think of it as an extra step in a CD player to take analog data convert it into digital and than
convert it back to analog. Analog sound out of an RCA jack is not the only type of Analog signal you know. The
analog signal coming off the CD disk is a very different analog signal compared to the analog signal coming out of
the RCA jacks on a CD player. Both are analog.


I can't be any clearer than this. I wish I could explain it better.
Its not a big deal folks.

Z








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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by peteben on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:25 pm


"The pits and lands themselves do NOT directly represent the zeros and ones of BINARY data."
Wikopedia on CD's.

True, but you forgot to include the next sentence:

" Instead, non-return-to-zero, inverted encoding is used: a change from pit to land or land to pit indicates a one, while no change indicates a series of zeros."

So the pits and land areas are still binary. The recorded signal, however, differs from the original signal. It has to be encoded, first in order to be self-clocking (NRZ) and also to add some error-recovery (ECC) information. This is true for any digital media. Even hard drives do this.

Pete



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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by casi nada on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:26 pm

Zedinmexico wrote:

"The pits and lands themselves do NOT directly represent the zeros and ones of BINARY data."
Wikopedia on CD's.


Zed speaking refuted as requested.

Once again a CD disk is analog. A DVD disk is digital. A Laserdisk disk is analog for the same reason a CD disk is.
There is a step on a CD player to take the analog data from the CD disk and make it digital than it goes to the
D to A convertor. So think of it as an extra step in a CD player to take analog data convert it into digital and than
convert it back to analog. Analog sound out of an RCA jack is not the only type of Analog signal you know. The
analog signal coming off the CD disk is a very different analog signal compared to the analog signal coming out of
the RCA jacks on a CD player. Both are analog.


I can't be any clearer than this. I wish I could explain it better.
Its not a big deal folks.

Z

And here's the next sentence in Wiki: Instead, non-return-to-zero, inverted encoding is used: a change from pit to land or land to pit indicates a one, while no change indicates a series of zeros.

See ya Zed. I can't take it anymore. You are a persistent little f***, I'll hand you that. But I'll never believe anything you post again. Adios.

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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by casi nada on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:28 pm

peteben wrote:
"The pits and lands themselves do NOT directly represent the zeros and ones of BINARY data."
Wikopedia on CD's.

True, but you forgot to include the next sentence:

" Instead, non-return-to-zero, inverted encoding is used: a change from pit to land or land to pit indicates a one, while no change indicates a series of zeros."

So the pits and land areas are still binary. The recorded signal, however, differs from the original signal. It has to be encoded, first in order to be self-clocking (NRZ) and also to add some error-recovery (ECC) information. This is true for any digital media. Even hard drives do this.

Pete


Thanks Pete. Looks like we posted at the same time. I'll let you have at him. I can't take it anymore.

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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by Zedinmexico on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:42 pm

I have always been taught that a CD takes analog data off the disk. I sent a
message to an expert I know who designed CD players. Lets see what he says.

Z

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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by peteben on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:16 pm

Zedinmexico wrote:I have always been taught that a CD takes analog data off the disk. I sent a
message to an expert I know who designed CD players. Lets see what he says.

Z

The medium itself IS analog, and the raw signal that comes out of the photo detector is also analog. It is then amplified and sampled to turn it into a digital signal that gets decoded as described. Once again, the same is true for magnetic media. As a matter of fact a great deal of engineering is needed to reliably convert that analog signal to a usable digital representation. Here is a decent explanation: http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/FD-Hard.php. It explains the simpler technology behind floppy drives, but the theory for other media is similar. Note that the signal that comes out of the read head is very much an analog signal that looks nothing like the digital ones and zeros one would expect.

Maybe that is what you were referring to?

Pete



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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by Zedinmexico on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:57 am

peteben wrote:
Zedinmexico wrote:I have always been taught that a CD takes analog data off the disk. I sent a
message to an expert I know who designed CD players. Lets see what he says.

Z

The medium itself IS analog, and the raw signal that comes out of the photo detector is also analog. It is then amplified and sampled to turn it into a digital signal that gets decoded as described. Once again, the same is true for magnetic media. As a matter of fact a great deal of engineering is needed to reliably convert that analog signal to a usable digital representation. Here is a decent explanation: http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/FD-Hard.php. It explains the simpler technology behind floppy drives, but the theory for other media is similar. Note that the signal that comes out of the read head is very much an analog signal that looks nothing like the digital ones and zeros one would expect.

Maybe that is what you were referring to?

Pete



I am waiting for an answer and he may be out of town. I think you have it but I can't remember
what makes a DVD disk different from a CD disk. I remember losing a bet over it. My friend
would know.

Z

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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by HelperGuy on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:59 am

Ah, tempered debate. How pleasant.

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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by David on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:57 pm

Or, you could look here: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cd6.htm and learn that the pits and bump on a cd represent DIGITAL data that is subsequently coverted to analog by a DAC for use by your music system. One could argue that the sensing of the pits and bump is an analog function but the information is digitally encoded.
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Re: I hate digital...Why?

Post by Zedinmexico on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:27 pm

Still no answer maybe he is in Mexico LOL as it sucks in the PNW lately.

I think we are close. It is something like this but a DVD is something different but
I can't remember what it was. He will answer me eventually.

Z

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Re: I hate digital...Why?

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