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Super Bugs

Post by espíritu del lago on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:58 am

Each of these bacteria can cause a number of infectious diseases, including pneumonia, septicemia and urinary tract infections. In the case of Klebsiella, Spellberg noted, there's just one highly toxic drug left, and it's effective only about half the time it's used.
It's equally alarming that antibiotic drug development is at a virtual standstill, he said. "The pipeline is barren," partly because pharmaceutical companies have few incentives for developing antibiotics that people take for just a few days or weeks, Spellberg said.
http://news.yahoo.com/rise-superbugs-called-apocalyptic-scenario-162449696.html

Interestingly yesterday I caught this on local news:

"With one five minute cycle, you can achieve anywhere from 95 to 99 percent disinfection, as compared to human clean, which is about 60 to 70 percent, in spite our best efforts," said Dr. Chetan Jinadatha, Chief of Infectious Diseases for the Temple VA Hospital.New UV Disinfection Technology aims to eliminate cross-contamination in hospitals.

The Temple VA Hospital purchased two of the more than 70-thousand dollar machines recently, making it one of the first VA hospitals in the country to do so. Although the machine may seem pricey, doctors say the cost to own the machines pales in comparison to the cost of un-doing cross-contamination.

Doctors say every three cross contamination cases equals the cost of one machine. So, in six months, the device generally pays for itself. In the future, the VA hospital hopes to adapt more of the machines.
http://www.kwkt.com/new-uv-disinfection-technology-aims-eliminate-cross-contamination-hospitals

Unfortunately there's the whole issue of antibiotics in our food. Many farm animals are pumped up on antibiotics to avoid mass spread among the (often) tightly crammed herd or flock.

Anyone know if any of these machines exist in MX and are currently in use?
UV disinfection machine? http://info.xenex.com/uv-disinfection/

Xenex systems are currently in use by hospitals throughout the U.S. and have proven to be effective against a variety of the most dangerous superbugs, including Clostridium difficile endospores (C. diff), MRSA, VRE and Acinetobacter. Studies show the Xenex room disinfection system is consistently 20 times more effective than standard chemical cleaning practices.

The portable room disinfection device pulses blue ultraviolet light throughout hospital isolation rooms, Intensive Care Units (ICUs), and Emergency Departments (ED's) to quickly destroy viruses, bacteria and bacterial spores – typically in about 5-10 minutes per room.
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by E-raq on Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:52 am

Interesting article Espiritu.

I've heard that ultraviolet light also works on swimming pools.

Another hint for killing the bad bugs, use tea tree oil, the bugs aren't able to resist that. I use it on everything. It can also be inhaled, I have a nebulizer, but a pot of steaming water works just fine as well.
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by Traveller on Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:43 pm

espíritu del lago wrote:

Unfortunately there's the whole issue of antibiotics in our food. Many farm animals are pumped up on antibiotics to avoid mass spread among the (often) tightly crammed herd or flock.

Antibiotics are not used only to treat and prevent disease. The routine use of low-level antibiotics increases the growth rate of livestock. The antibiotics are added to the feed right in the feed mill. More profit for agribusiness and more profit for the pharmaceuticals! A win-win situation, except for that nasty superbug problem.

Such a practice is guaranteed to produce bacteria-resistant bacteria, by the way. The antibiotics are supposed to be discontinued in time to clear the system before the animal is slaughtered; there are strict regulations to govern that, backed up with fines if a producer is caught breaking the rules. Unfortunately, even if the antibiotic is gone from the system, the antibiotic-resistant bacteria aren't. I don't know how long this has been going on, but it was already common practice 30 years ago when I first became familiar with the agribusiness industry.

Antibiotics to treat disease are another issue. Here too there are regulations about how long an animal must be off its meds before it goes to slaughter. I can assure you that both in the commercial operations in which I worked and on the family farm where I lived for 20 years, these regulations were not always followed - sometimes through carelessness and sometimes deliberately (Oh, ship 'er before she croaks!). I remember a news story many years ago when some kid who was allergic to penicillin got a bad reaction from eating a hot dog. I believe it was in Saskatchewan or Manitoba. Anyway there was great shock and horror that contaminated meat could slip through and wind up in your dinner. But I was only surprised that cases like that don't happen more often!

Here are two links about antibiotic resistance. There seems to be a growing awareness of the problem and some effort to end the overuse of antibiotics. Better late than never, I suppose.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/sep/19/scientists-antibiotics-animal-agriculture

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/jan/20/antibiotics-bacteria-resistance-alice-roberts?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:46 pm

Thanks for links I bookmarked and will read later!
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Gloom and doom

Post by Dr. Sam Thelin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:45 am

Gloom, doom, and BS...

UV as a sterilizing agent is not new. It was offered in kitchens in the 50s, and used in hospitals before that. In fact, Niels Ryberg Finsen invented a special UV lamp over 110 years ago that was used up into the 50s, and was awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 1903 for its application in killing bacteria.

Yes, you can use UV to treat your swimming pool, just put your pool outside in the sun.

As for the superbug terror, it sells news. I have yet to see any bacteria that will permanently have resistance. This is the part that is never mentioned in the gloom and doom news. The misuse of antibiotics is a problem, and it does kill people. However, what all this misinformation fails to mention is that bacterial resistance is a metabolic load on the organism. What that means is that a bacteria will only have resistance as long as it is exposed to the specific antibiotic. Remove the antibiotic, and the resistance goes away. Isolated, the bacteria will continue to divide until some progeny of of it does not have the resistance plasmid. The lack of the plasmid means lower metabolic load (it would also mean death if the antibiotic was still present). However, without the need for resistance, it lives and divides... and will divide faster than the bacteria with the metabolic load of having the resistance plasmid. Thus, in X number of generations, the non-resistant form will completely replace the resistant version.

The problem is when the resistance is produced in person "A", and person "A" passes the infection to person "B". The person inherits the resistant bacteria. This is a major problem for the patient, and more work for the doctor. Cultures and antibiograms need to be done, and guessing which antibiotic to use in the meantime can mean life and death until the results come back in a few days. However, “Superbug” is not anything super. It is just a bacteria that is resistant because it is continually encouraged to be by being given an antibiotic to which it is already resistant. Use a dose and an antibiotic that kills the bacteria, and there is no resistance (dead bacteria do not become resistant).

So much for doomsday news.



Last edited by Dr. Sam Thelin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Super Bugs

Post by Ms.Thang on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:51 am

And hooray for straight up facts!

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Re: Super Bugs

Post by E-raq on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:44 pm

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:Gloom, doom, and BS...

UV as a sterilizing agent is not new. It was offered in kitchens in the 50s, and used in hospitals before that. In fact, Niels Ryberg Finsen invented a special UV lamp over 110 years ago that was used up into the 50s, and was awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 1903 for its application in killing bacteria.

Yes, you can use UV to treat your swimming pool, just put your pool outside in the sun.

As for the superbug terror, it sells news. I have yet to see any bacteria that will permanently have resistance. This is the part that is never mentioned in the gloom and doom news. The misuse of antibiotics is a problem, and it does kill people. However, what all this misinformation fails to mention is that bacterial resistance is a metabolic load on the organism. What that means is that a bacteria will only have resistance as long as it is exposed to the specific antibiotic. Remove the antibiotic, and the resistance goes away. Isolated, the bacteria will continue to divide until some progeny of of it does not have the resistance plasmid. The lack of the plasmid means lower metabolic load (it would also mean death if the antibiotic was still present). However, without the need for resistance, it lives and divides... and will divide faster than the bacteria with the metabolic load of having the resistance plasmid. Thus, in X number of generations, the non-resistant form will completely replace the resistant version.

The problem is when the resistance is produced in person "A", and person "A" passes the infection to person "B". The person inherits the resistant bacteria. This is a major problem for the patient, and more work for the doctor. Cultures and antibiograms need to be done, and guessing which antibiotic to use in the meantime can mean life and death until the results come back in a few days. However, “Superbug” is not anything super. It is just a bacteria that is resistant because it is continually encouraged to be by being given an antibiotic to which it is already resistant. Use a dose and an antibiotic that kills the bacteria, and there is no resistance (dead bacteria do not become resistant).

So much for doomsday news.



Well well well. if it isn't Dr. Sam. No dear, pools in the sun do not sterilize themselves. Why don't you try that on your pool and get back to us on that. Couple of weeks should be good. Remember now, no chlorine. Oh yes invite some little kids over for a pee. Orinoterapia, I heard it's good for you. NOT.

How about MRSA? Kinda hard to ignore that one, then there's always Pseudomonas A. Oh hey, great ides put a nice dollop of Pseudomonas A. in your pool after the kiddies have peed in it. Leave it a couple of more weeks and you have a nice toxic soup to swim in. Be sure and splash some in your eyes. Pseudomonas aeruginosa loves eyeballs. From there of course it can affect every organ in your body. After that you know where it goes, into the bloodstream. Septicemia. Ooop's sorry the patient died, we tried everything but it was just one of those things.

Oh BTW ladies and gentlemen, Pseudomonas A. also really likes stuff down below. I know one guy who got a urinary tract infection which took 4 months to clear up in the U.S. after swimming in one of the pools which was "sterilized in the sun". Guess the bacteriology department down here messed up on the C and S testing, because he had to go NOB to get cured!

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Re: Super Bugs

Post by ferret on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:21 pm

Dr. Thelin wrote "
Remove the antibiotic, and the resistance goes away
"

Please Dr. Thelin, will you post a link to back up this statement? I suppose you are still prescribing Penicllin for Gonorrhea?

Do you think that the CDC is into scare mongering?
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-08-09/cdc-gonorrhea-treatment/56890288/1

http://www.cdc.gov/getsmart/antibiotic-use/antibiotic-resistance-faqs.html

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/resistance.htm

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Re: Super Bugs

Post by Dr. Sam Thelin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:53 pm

I said "Yes, you can use UV to treat your swiming pool..." Just like you can use witchcraft to treat your illnesses. I did not say it would be highly effective. Knowledge of the English language, and vocabulary of words such as "can", "may", "could", "might", "will", "shall", etc. "should" help you understand my posts.

E-raq wrote:
Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:Gloom, doom, and BS...

UV as a sterilizing agent is not new. It was offered in kitchens in the 50s, and used in hospitals before that. In fact, Niels Ryberg Finsen invented a special UV lamp over 110 years ago that was used up into the 50s, and was awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 1903 for its application in killing bacteria.

Yes, you can use UV to treat your swimming pool, just put your pool outside in the sun.

As for the superbug terror, it sells news. I have yet to see any bacteria that will permanently have resistance. This is the part that is never mentioned in the gloom and doom news. The misuse of antibiotics is a problem, and it does kill people. However, what all this misinformation fails to mention is that bacterial resistance is a metabolic load on the organism. What that means is that a bacteria will only have resistance as long as it is exposed to the specific antibiotic. Remove the antibiotic, and the resistance goes away. Isolated, the bacteria will continue to divide until some progeny of of it does not have the resistance plasmid. The lack of the plasmid means lower metabolic load (it would also mean death if the antibiotic was still present). However, without the need for resistance, it lives and divides... and will divide faster than the bacteria with the metabolic load of having the resistance plasmid. Thus, in X number of generations, the non-resistant form will completely replace the resistant version.

The problem is when the resistance is produced in person "A", and person "A" passes the infection to person "B". The person inherits the resistant bacteria. This is a major problem for the patient, and more work for the doctor. Cultures and antibiograms need to be done, and guessing which antibiotic to use in the meantime can mean life and death until the results come back in a few days. However, “Superbug” is not anything super. It is just a bacteria that is resistant because it is continually encouraged to be by being given an antibiotic to which it is already resistant. Use a dose and an antibiotic that kills the bacteria, and there is no resistance (dead bacteria do not become resistant).

So much for doomsday news.



Well well well. if it isn't Dr. Sam. No dear, pools in the sun do not sterilize themselves. Why don't you try that on your pool and get back to us on that. Couple of weeks should be good. Remember now, no chlorine. Oh yes invite some little kids over for a pee. Orinoterapia, I heard it's good for you. NOT.

How about MRSA? Kinda hard to ignore that one, then there's always Pseudomonas A. Oh hey, great ides put a nice dollop of Pseudomonas A. in your pool after the kiddies have peed in it. Leave it a couple of more weeks and you have a nice toxic soup to swim in. Be sure and splash some in your eyes. Pseudomonas aeruginosa loves eyeballs. From there of course it can affect every organ in your body. After that you know where it goes, into the bloodstream. Septicemia. Ooop's sorry the patient died, we tried everything but it was just one of those things.

Oh BTW ladies and gentlemen, Pseudomonas A. also really likes stuff down below. I know one guy who got a urinary tract infection which took 4 months to clear up in the U.S. after swimming in one of the pools which was "sterilized in the sun". Guess the bacteriology department down here messed up on the C and S testing, because he had to go NOB to get cured!

Beer

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Re: Super Bugs

Post by Dr. Sam Thelin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:14 pm

Actually it was something I learned in basic 4th year molecular cell biology genetic engineering lab. I have about as much desire to search the web to proove metabolic load's association with bacterial growth rates as I do to search for a report to confirm that brushing your teeth with sulfuric acid could cause tooth decay. I will try to attach a few .pdfs that I already have on my computer just for you :)

Keep in mind the CDC works on "public health" (what is in the best interest for the masses) which is different from "individual health".

ferret wrote:Dr. Thelin wrote "
Remove the antibiotic, and the resistance goes away
"

Please Dr. Thelin, will you post a link to back up this statement? I suppose you are still prescribing Penicllin for Gonorrhea?

Do you think that the CDC is into scare mongering?
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-08-09/cdc-gonorrhea-treatment/56890288/1

http://www.cdc.gov/getsmart/antibiotic-use/antibiotic-resistance-faqs.html

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/resistance.htm


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Re: Super Bugs

Post by Dr. Sam Thelin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:10 pm

That would depend on the antibiogram results. Just because patient X, Y, and Z are resistant, does not mean that patient A is infected with a resistant strain.

ferret wrote: I suppose you are still prescribing Penicllin for Gonorrhea?

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Re: Super Bugs

Post by E-raq on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:14 pm

A bit touchy aren't we Dr. Sam?
Do have a lovely evening.

Shall we chat about mycoses and parasites next? They're much more interesting don't you think?
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by ferret on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:30 pm

That works only in a closed environment like a Chemostat where you are dealing with only one kind of bacteria. Yes, the plasmid can be lost through cell division and may not be transfered to both daughter cells.
But bacteria are notoriously smart and promiscuous and nor are they bigots. They can receive plasmid from other bacteria via horizontal transfer...especially if their survival depends on it.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-plasmid-antibiotic-resistance.htm

I did find this article (which is easy to read) which makes mention of your concept "take away the antibiotic and the resistance goes away". It would probably work in a totally sterile environment and how long would you have to stay in that bubble. The discussion at the end of the article is very interesting. It would appear that even those of us who have avoided antibiotics (for obvious reasons) are still exposed to resistant bacteria in our environment, from other people and animals, and from the food we consume. We're f*&#ed.
http://www.tufts.edu/med/apua/about_issue/ecology_3_1402951595.pdf

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Re: Super Bugs

Post by Dr. Sam Thelin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:37 am

Yes, we usually get the antibiotic-resistant infections from other people.

The "public health" answer is use the "first line" antibiotics first, then if they do not work, go to second line, and then if that does not work, and the patient is still alive, go to an antibiotic with less known resistance. That way the "good" antibiotics are not over-used.

The personal survival method is use whatever everyone else is not using, and use the full dose of it to make sure every last bacteria is resting in peace. Using 3 antibiotics at the same time also is a good way to greatly reduce any bacteria living through the treatment to cause resistance. The key is kill them all. Dead bacteria do not produce resistance. Antibiograms can be used to confirm effectiveness of the antibiotic, or need to change it.

The worst thing is to underdose, especially long-term (as in the cattle industry) or to discontinue treatment and not take the full course of treatment.

ferret wrote:That works only in a closed environment like a Chemostat where you are dealing with only one kind of bacteria. Yes, the plasmid can be lost through cell division and may not be transfered to both daughter cells.
But bacteria are notoriously smart and promiscuous and nor are they bigots. They can receive plasmid from other bacteria via horizontal transfer...especially if their survival depends on it.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-plasmid-antibiotic-resistance.htm

I did find this article (which is easy to read) which makes mention of your concept "take away the antibiotic and the resistance goes away". It would probably work in a totally sterile environment and how long would you have to stay in that bubble. The discussion at the end of the article is very interesting. It would appear that even those of us who have avoided antibiotics (for obvious reasons) are still exposed to resistant bacteria in our environment, from other people and animals, and from the food we consume. We're f*&#ed.
http://www.tufts.edu/med/apua/about_issue/ecology_3_1402951595.pdf


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Re: Super Bugs

Post by E-raq on Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:58 am

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:Yes, we usually get the antibiotic-resistant infections from other people.

The "public health" answer is use the "first line" antibiotics first, then if they do not work, go to second line, and then if that does not work, and the patient is still alive, go to an antibiotic with less known resistance. That way the "good" antibiotics are not over-used.

The personal survival method is use whatever everyone else is not using, and use the full dose of it to make sure every last bacteria is resting in peace. Using 3 antibiotics at the same time also is a good way to greatly reduce any bacteria living through the treatment to cause resistance. The key is kill them all. Dead bacteria do not produce resistance. Antibiograms can be used to confirm effectiveness of the antibiotic, or need to change it.

The worst thing is to underdose, especially long-term (as in the cattle industry) or to discontinue treatment and not take the full course of treatment.

ferret wrote:That works only in a closed environment like a Chemostat where you are dealing with only one kind of bacteria. Yes, the plasmid can be lost through cell division and may not be transfered to both daughter cells.
But bacteria are notoriously smart and promiscuous and nor are they bigots. They can receive plasmid from other bacteria via horizontal transfer...especially if their survival depends on it.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-plasmid-antibiotic-resistance.htm

I did find this article (which is easy to read) which makes mention of your concept "take away the antibiotic and the resistance goes away". It would probably work in a totally sterile environment and how long would you have to stay in that bubble. The discussion at the end of the article is very interesting. It would appear that even those of us who have avoided antibiotics (for obvious reasons) are still exposed to resistant bacteria in our environment, from other people and animals, and from the food we consume. We're f*&#ed.
http://www.tufts.edu/med/apua/about_issue/ecology_3_1402951595.pdf

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Re: Super Bugs

Post by E-raq on Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:05 am

Lawd ha mercy the delete button failed. What is this place coming to?

So let's say y'all use three antibiotics to kill off those bacteria, what could be the risk? How about a nice fungal infection that takes about a year on nystatin to clear up. Of course you could use one of those new and improved versions of anti-fungal medication which do what we might ask? Kill off your freaking liver over time. You just have to love modern medicine.

Moving right along to under dosing, why don't we have a close look at the dermatologists. Low dose tetracycline for years to get rid of some pimples??? Haven't these guys heard of clearasil or that new one that is forever on T.V. with alarming before shots, and of course sheer perfection afterwards. Let's get topical here and not under dose the entire body. For those opposed to antibiotic use, or wasting money, there's always a nice little face wash known as salt water. Sea salt, warm water and maybe an apple to keep the doctor away with his prescription pad.

This one has got to be my personal favorite.

(quote Dr. Sam) "The "public health" answer is use the "first line" antibiotics first, then if they do not work, go to second line, and then if that does not work, and the patient is still alive, go to an antibiotic with less known resistance. That way the "good" antibiotics are not over-used." (end quote)

Hasn't anybody ever heard of C and S tests, or is that too complicated?
So, what's a good antibiotic? Let's examine this fascinating subject further before we move smartly along to protozoans and their little buddies fungi.

If the patient is still alive that is.


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Re: Super Bugs

Post by ferret on Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:22 am

E-raq, one of the biggest problems in a microbiology lab is getting properly taken samples to do a Culture and Sensitivity...especially in the areas where there is normal flora involved as well. Nurses in hospitals are notorious for leaving samples at room temperature instead of refrigerating them.
The easiest to do are from areas where nothing is supposed to be growing...like a blood culture, cerebral spinal fluid or a "wound".
At least you can do a gram stain on those immediately and give the Doctor an idea if he/she's dealing with a gram positive or negative cocci or rod.
By the time a C&S is done, you're looking at a minimum of 48 hours and timing may be critical if the patient is very sick so Doctors start them on SOMETHING, usually a Broad Spectrum antibiotic. It's kinda like using an assault rifle to kill a fly. Multiple antibiotic combos have the same effect.
In a perfect world, no antibiotics would be given until the C&S indicated which one would target the offending bacteria like a sniper.
Now if we could just stop that antibiotic from killing off all the good bacteria (normal flora) as well. That normal flora, especially in the gut, is a HUGE part of the defense in your immune system.
I'd like to say "Eat your yogurt" but now I'm wondering if yogurt is coming from cows that have received low dose antibiotics. ????? I think I'll stick with Lactobacillus in capsule form. I don't want to get overrun with Candida and/or parasites either.




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Re: Super Bugs

Post by espíritu del lago on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:21 am

Bottom line try and keep a healthy immune system, get plenty of rest and wash your hands frequently. Stay away from sick people. Most medication has side effects that are worse than what you are trying to treat. Some of the oldest people I have known and know take nothing! They stay active, clean for themselves, cook for themselves. Some drink a couple of beers or wine and they are more concerned for helping others. I never see them eating processed food or eating out.

I asked my Aunt and her sister the secret to living past the century mark. They both said what I stated above. Same answers other old people gave. Almost ALL af them stay away from modern medicine.
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by ferret on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:41 am

Bingo!
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by CanuckBob on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:54 am

Tequila and pickled habaneros are my cure all........
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by E-raq on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:22 am

ferret wrote:E-raq, one of the biggest problems in a microbiology lab is getting properly taken samples to do a Culture and Sensitivity...especially in the areas where there is normal flora involved as well. Nurses in hospitals are notorious for leaving samples at room temperature instead of refrigerating them.
The easiest to do are from areas where nothing is supposed to be growing...like a blood culture, cerebral spinal fluid or a "wound".
At least you can do a gram stain on those immediately and give the Doctor an idea if he/she's dealing with a gram positive or negative cocci or rod.
By the time a C&S is done, you're looking at a minimum of 48 hours and timing may be critical if the patient is very sick so Doctors start them on SOMETHING, usually a Broad Spectrum antibiotic. It's kinda like using an assault rifle to kill a fly. Multiple antibiotic combos have the same effect.
In a perfect world, no antibiotics would be given until the C&S indicated which one would target the offending bacteria like a sniper.
Now if we could just stop that antibiotic from killing off all the good bacteria (normal flora) as well. That normal flora, especially in the gut, is a HUGE part of the defense in your immune system.
I'd like to say "Eat your yogurt" but now I'm wondering if yogurt is coming from cows that have received low dose antibiotics. ????? I think I'll stick with Lactobacillus in capsule form. I don't want to get overrun with Candida and/or parasites either.






Here's what I did in an emergency situation over christmas. It wasn't the best choice either, but it did work. The pool guy was getting really sick, horrendous cough low low down, sounded awful I'm thinking pneumonia no Docs to be found, anywhere. I had some Cipro so gave that to him and it worked.

Now if I were to do it again, I'd have tried Doxycycline and kept my fingers crossed.

If you add in 1,000,000 I.U. of myscostatin every 12 hours you can keep the mycosis at bay. Then repopulate with lactobacillus afterwards.

What is the matter with the nurses, can they not read instructions? It's not exactly rocket science. Keep sample at whatever degrees. Or refrigerate immediately. I sent samples in to the parasitology lab, no sweat they were just stacked up at room temperature. Even I could manage that. Things that just make you scratch your head. Shocked
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by gringal on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:33 pm

I don't have any medical expertise whatever, but was surprised when I learned that the average 60 plus person is on FIVE different prescription drugs.

This gets us back to the issue of why some of the people who live longer stay away from the docs as much as possible. Another head scratcher: I've also heard that Big Pharma is not as interested in improving drugs which are taken short term rather than ones that people are put on for the rest of their lives.

Then, even after tests show that some of those drugs are not only not producing the desired results, but are having negative effects, they are still sold to the uninformed. Example: the osteoporosis "prevention" drug which is quite expensive, while tests show that it doesn't actually do the job but gives the illusion of doing so.

scratch

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Re: Super Bugs

Post by ferret on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:23 pm

Gringal...as you always say "follow the money". There is so much information on the internet now (that is easily understood) that it really pays to take the time and look stuff up. Most especially reports of drug interactions and/or side effects and/or consumer reports.

E-raq...bacteria are being grown in colonies on specific agar plates. Samples that have an overgrowth of normal flora can easily mask a pathogen which is why you need the "arrested development" of refrigeration to maintain the status quo.
You're not growing parasites on an agar plate. Still, if the samples weren't refrigerated, they might give an indication of more parasites than reality...hanky panky at room temperature. MHO, of course, because parasitology is not an area in which I spent a lot of time during my working years. Part of the study syllabus...yes. Practical hands on work experience...no.
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by E-raq on Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:18 pm

ferret wrote:Gringal...as you always say "follow the money". There is so much information on the internet now (that is easily understood) that it really pays to take the time and look stuff up. Most especially reports of drug interactions and/or side effects and/or consumer reports.

E-raq...bacteria are being grown in colonies on specific agar plates. Samples that have an overgrowth of normal flora can easily mask a pathogen which is why you need the "arrested development" of refrigeration to maintain the status quo.
You're not growing parasites on an agar plate. Still, if the samples weren't refrigerated, they might give an indication of more parasites than reality...hanky panky at room temperature. MHO, of course, because parasitology is not an area in which I spent a lot of time during my working years. Part of the study syllabus...yes. Practical hands on work experience...no.

Oh yeah, I get the fridge part, so why is the question.

@gringal I take exactly 2 prescription drugs. Both for neck pain and neuropathy. That's it.

Back to ferret, you can't culture parasites, on an agar plate, they're anaerobes. 20 minutes in oxygen and the little suckers are dead. That's a maximum. Yee haw, bring on the H2O2. 3%.

Parasitology and Mycology were my specialties. As for bacteria, they're pretty much boring, IMHO, except for those super bugs.
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Re: Super Bugs

Post by gringal on Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:32 pm

As always "follow the money". The internet is a wonderful source of information for the layman and I believe it's very important to be pro-active about your own medical care; to have the knowledge you need to say "no" when you're offered a prescription for treating something which you, yourself, could often take care of with some lifestyle changes. You know, like losing that extra fifty pounds that are taxing your heart or cutting out the foods clogging your arteries and/or raising your blood pressure.

Years ago, when my spouse's doctor wanted to put him on statins, spouse asked what he could do to get that cholesterol down on his own. The doctor said, flat out, that "people won't do that, so I prescribe the drug". Guess what? He made the necessary changes instead and down went the numbers.

Too many people take the pills and get a peculiar sense of permission to go on merrily downing the very foods the got them in trouble in the first place. Bigger, better, fattier continues, with a side of fries, wings, and a coupla beers.

I like Ferret's input about how samples should be treated. Makes perfect sense that things should be refrigerated instead of being allowed to Party On.



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