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MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Tue 02 Apr 2013, 4:10 pm

We just discovered the Notario on our friends will needed 2 last names, did not advise anyone, the now deceased, or my wife who is the executor.

His passport, FM-3, Mexican Drivers license all show one last name. We are now required to have a hearing, 2 people testify he is one and the same........ET FING CETERA! Already been 3 months, and maybe 2 to 5 months more!

Purpose of post is check out your will thru an interpreter, to avoid this kind of BS. Since I used the same notario Blackeye I've confirmed he didn't do the same on mine!

Hopefully Spencer will chime in as he is handling this!
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Sat 20 Apr 2013, 12:16 pm

Another issue has risen trying to execute will. Our friends intention was to leave 25% to Cruz Roja. His intent was Cruz Roja Chapala, however, since the local attorney did not specify same the decision on where the money goes is in the hands of the President of Cruz Roja, Jalisco.

Again, if you have a will, and have directed monies/assets to a charity, confirm that locations are specified, otherwise your executor can't do a thing. scratch
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Hensley on Sat 20 Apr 2013, 12:49 pm

That is good to know, thanks.
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by viajero on Sat 20 Apr 2013, 12:53 pm

Two last names?Gringos don't have two last names and any notario catering to gringos should know that.You might want to try a different notary,I highly recommend,Lic.Lorenzo Bailon in Guadalajara,two time president of the Colegio de Notarios of Jalisco.very competent and professional.

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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by brigitte on Sat 20 Apr 2013, 1:34 pm

Get a constancia from the consulate saying this his full name. I had to do that when I applied for citizenship. The French consulate gave me one in Spanish since they do not exist in France.
A little strange that a competent notario would not know how to handle without making you guys through hoops.
Even more interesting is that the SRE and my lawyer told me that there are plenty of people with only one name in Mexico. Kids who are not recognize by the father or who do not know who their father is do not have two names according to the SRE and my lawyer. Something does not add up.

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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Sat 20 Apr 2013, 2:08 pm

Thanks Chris and Brigitte. For us damage was/is done. As a 1st time executor, I am posting info, so you might check your wills/paperwork to make sure this won't happen to the executor of your estate as they try to complete your last wishes.

The whole thing is a PITA, and mostly resolved at this point.
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by SunFan on Sun 21 Apr 2013, 8:35 am

We had our wills done about 6 months ago by Notario #2 in San Antonio.

The wills contain only our first, middle and surnames.

Jim, does this mean the wills will be difficult to probate????

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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Sun 21 Apr 2013, 9:51 am

SunFan wrote:We had our wills done about 6 months ago by Notario #2 in San Antonio.

The wills contain only our first, middle and surnames.

Jim, does this mean the wills will be difficult to probate????

SunFan

I'm not the person to ask Sunfan. I only know the Notario added his Mothers maiden name to his name, creating a PITA. Now that he has passed we must have a hearing with 2 witnesses(not a problem), hire an interpreter, to testify he is one and the same. All this will take 2 to 5 more months to settle the estate.

Still can't understand why this Notario did this, and he has no explanation. He did not do this on my will, and mine was done approx. the same time. Basta
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Intercasa on Sun 21 Apr 2013, 11:00 am

2 issues:

Notario used 2 last names for the foreigner who is now deceased even though all his ID used only one last name, if there was any doubt he simply could have added an aka part.

Next, guy left everything to Cruz Roja. Which Cruz Roja? You need to be very specific or else the main mother ship with the signing power will say hey, you didn't specify and it is for us and the local officer will be SOL.

The name thing should not be an issue but the court rejected our request to apply case law that said another hearing was unnecessary saying the federal ruling was a guideline but not binding.


[TA]; 9a. Época; T.C.C.; S.J.F. y su Gaceta; Tomo IX, Abril de 1999; Pág. 573

NOMBRE. SU USO INCOMPLETO ES INSUFICIENTE POR SÍ SOLO PARA DETERMINAR QUE SE TRATA DE PERSONA DIFERENTE AL INTERESADO (LEGISLACIÓN DEL ESTADO DE PUEBLA).

Por nombre se entiende la palabra que se aplica a una persona o cosa para distinguirla de las demás; respecto a las personas, se complementa con el o los apellidos. Ahora bien, el artículo 64 del Código Civil del Estado de Puebla, permite que el nombre propio sea puesto libremente por quien declare el nacimiento de una persona y los apellidos serán el del padre y el de la madre, o en su caso sólo los de aquél o los de ésta, sean tales apellidos simples o compuestos. Así pues, este dispositivo legal no prohíbe que las personas tengan nombres compuestos, esto es, dos o más nombres propios; por otro lado, es suficiente que el nombre de una persona permita distinguirla de otras, de modo que en el caso de personas con dos o más nombres, es irrelevante que en un acto jurídico usen uno solo de ellos y el apellido, o todos los nombres y apellidos, con la condición de que las circunstancias, datos o cualidades propias de la persona, conduzcan a la certeza de que se trata de la nombrada, cuenta habida que la ley no prohíbe el uso del nombre en forma incompleta.
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Sun 21 Apr 2013, 12:29 pm

It appears to me that the Notario used by my friend, made many errors writing our friends will....a rather simple one at that. Now creating much frustration for the executor.

Apparently in Mexico, there is no consequence for incompetant Notario's. Dead Horse
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Mon 13 May 2013, 3:53 pm

Are do it yourself wills legal in Mexico? Simple such as leave a home to a loved one? Have it notarized and filed with the court? From what I've seen, do it yerselfers are more accurate than those written by some notaries.
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by little italy on Mon 13 May 2013, 4:28 pm

[quote="Jim W"]We just discovered the Notario on our friends will needed 2 last names, did not advise anyone, the now deceased, or my wife who is the executor.

His passport, FM-3, Mexican Drivers license all show one last name. We are now required to have a hearing, 2 people testify he is one and the same........ET FING CETERA! Already been 3 months, and maybe 2 to 5 months more!

Purpose of post is check out your will thru an interpreter, to avoid this kind of BS. Since I used the same notario :31: I've confirmed he didn't do the same on mine!

Hopefully Spencer will chime in as he is handling this!
[/quote]

Jim was this the Notario in San Juan?

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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Mon 13 May 2013, 4:45 pm

No Little Italy, this was Notario # 1 In Chapala, across from the bus station on Madero.
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by little italy on Mon 13 May 2013, 5:20 pm

Thanks Jim. So sorry you and your wife have to go through this.

It really helps the expats knowing who they can trust, unfortunately some of us have to lean the hard way. Would be nice to know who can be trusted regarding Lawyers and Natarios.
I wish you and your wife all the luck and hopefully this situation will be closed soon.

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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Mon 13 May 2013, 5:41 pm

Little Italy, really a speed bump in life. Reason I post this is hopefully to save others a little grief. As I understand it only people with Mexican assets need a will. It would be a major bummer for surviving spouse to find out their wills had issue while grieving.

BTW, I hope you will make it to the Board Meeting the 30th......should be fun and should have many good conversations.

Jim N Deb
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Intercasa on Mon 13 May 2013, 5:54 pm

There are a few different options to a Mexican will to achieve the same ends. Life estates, beneficiary clauses, trusts and joint accounts can be utilized to avoid wills as even with wills there is a probate process and with the other methods you can avoid time consuming and costly court intervention.
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Sat 18 May 2013, 3:49 pm

Intercasa wrote:There are a few different options to a Mexican will to achieve the same ends. Life estates, beneficiary clauses, trusts and joint accounts can be utilized to avoid wills as even with wills there is a probate process and with the other methods you can avoid time consuming and costly court intervention.


Spencer, how does one pick a competent Notario and a proper estate plan in Mexico? What is the best way to avoid the probate process?
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Intercasa on Sat 18 May 2013, 4:04 pm

Get a good referral from an attorney who can review the notarios work. Many foreigners judge notarios on how nice they are or how good their English is instead of the quality of their documents. Expect to pay someone to review a final draft of the notary's will, better to pay a little extra to have it done right up front than have your heirs hassled and pay money down the road to fix errors.

For an estate plan consult with me or any other competent attorney there is no one plan for all and depends on assets and other factors. I recommend one with postgraduate studies in civil and business law as well as continuing education, that will ensure you get someone who is up on the latest changes in law but also will rule out 98% of the Chapala area attorneys. There are a few notaries who have advanced degrees like Jorge Luis Ramos Uriarte who I believe is also a member of my corporate attorney bar association (ANADE) which mandates continuing education to maintain membership.

I am an active member of ANADE and have a specialty in Civil and Business Procedure which is part of the Master's Degree program at the UP and I go to every class offered by the ANADE and will participate in their postgraduate corporate attorney update class, Diplomado de Actualización del Abogado de Empresa.

Also another scam to be aware of, ONLY NOTARIOS CAN DO WILLS. There is an attorney in Ajijic who has charged $300US to foreigners to do their will and types them up and they are in English. These wills are INVALID! If you have one of these please run to a notary and get a real will or else you will die intestate causing more time and expenses to your heirs.
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Jim W on Wed 03 Jul 2013, 5:14 pm

Well, time for update!  Our friend passed in December, and we are scheduled for will reading on the 8th of July, 2013!
Probably another 30 days till funds can be released, to pay mortuary, and beneficiaries!

So with a proper will, it will take over 8 months to disperse funds, how long would it take to finalize without a will, in Mexico?
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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Intercasa on Wed 03 Jul 2013, 5:33 pm

Without a will add months and extra expenses to publish notices in newspapers
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Bar Associations in Jalisco??? Not like we know up north.

Post by Sherman on Mon 09 Sep 2013, 12:27 pm

Jim W wrote:It appears to me that the Notario used by my friend, made many errors writing our friends will....a rather simple one at that.  Now creating much frustration for the executor.  

Apparently in Mexico, there is no consequence for incompetant Notario's. Dead Horse

Spencer may want to chime in on this ....
but from my conversation with him and others in the legal professional here, there are bar associations here in Jalisco and in Mexico, but they are more for social or networking purposes, and maybe some professional development.

They do not have the power to disbar someone for misconduct or incompetence or to keep someone from practicing.
There's also the discussion and issue of required 'continuing' education, or the lack thereof.

In the US, we do have bar associations with punitive powers and continue ed requirements, and we still have tons of problems with malpractice and incompetence. So, what would you expect here with none of that in place?? Buyer beware is an understatement!

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Re: MEXICAN WILL

Post by Sherman on Mon 09 Sep 2013, 12:34 pm

Is anyone aware of recent changes in the Jalisco State Law regarding wills and especially where it might have some particular implication for foreigners.

Someone is suggesting there are new changes in the State law and I'm not aware of this, but would sure like to know .... I would appreciate comments or experience, and especially if you know something specific.

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HAPPY TO REPORT

Post by Jim W on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 4:04 pm

Jim W wrote:Well, time for update!  Our friend passed in December, and we are scheduled for will reading on the 8th of July, 2013!
Probably another 30 days till funds can be released, to pay mortuary, and beneficiaries!  

So with a proper will, it will take over 8 months to disperse funds, how long would it take to finalize without a will, in Mexico?  



FINALLY, Cruz Roja has received and cashed the check! One more hurdle to go! cheers  Reminder to all, if you designate a charity to receive X % of your will, funds can be tied up for months, even years, denying loved ones of their share. I encourage everyone to find an alternative to giving in this way. Hopefully you will contact Spencer for alternate methods.

One question for Spencer, if our friend had designated a set amount, vs. %, could much of the 9 month delay been avoided?
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Question about notario in San Juan?????

Post by Sherman on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 7:35 pm

little italy wrote:
Jim W wrote:We just discovered the Notario on our friends will needed 2 last names, did not advise anyone, the now deceased, or my wife who is the executor.  

His passport, FM-3, Mexican Drivers license all show one last name.  We are now required to have a hearing, 2 people testify he is one and the same........ET FING CETERA!  Already been 3 months, and maybe 2 to 5 months more!  

Purpose of post is check out your will thru an interpreter, to avoid this kind of BS.  Since I used the same notario :31:I've confirmed he didn't do the same on mine!

Hopefully Spencer will chime in as he is handling this!
Jim was this the Notario in San Juan?
Little Italy, I'm wondering if you meant San Juan Cosala or another San Juan. I don't recall a Notario being in San Juan Cosala. ...... thanks.

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Gracias Spencer

Post by Sherman on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 7:40 pm

Intercasa wrote:Get a good referral from an attorney who can review the notarios work.  Many foreigners judge notarios on how nice they are or how good their English is instead of the quality of their documents.  Expect to pay someone to review a final draft of the notary's will, better to pay a little extra to have it done right up front than have your heirs hassled and pay money down the road to fix errors.  

For an estate plan consult with me or any other competent attorney there is no one plan for all and depends on assets and other factors.  I recommend one with postgraduate studies in civil and business law as well as continuing education, that will ensure you get someone who is up on the latest changes in law but also will rule out 98% of the Chapala area attorneys.  There are a few notaries who have advanced degrees like Jorge Luis Ramos Uriarte who I believe is also a member of my corporate attorney bar association (ANADE) which mandates continuing education to maintain membership.  

I am an active member of ANADE and have a specialty in Civil and Business Procedure which is part of the Master's Degree program at the UP and I go to every class offered by the ANADE and will participate in their postgraduate corporate attorney update class, Diplomado de Actualización del Abogado de Empresa.  

Also another scam to be aware of, ONLY NOTARIOS CAN DO WILLS.  There is an attorney in Ajijic who has charged $300US to foreigners to do their will and types them up and they are in English.  These wills are INVALID!  If you have one of these please run to a notary and get a real will or else you will die intestate causing more time and expenses to your heirs.  
I often just read, and don't post. But, I'm interested in the topic and appreciate the quality input!!

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