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Law Firm in Guad as an alternative to lakeside legal professionals

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Post by Sherman Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:25 pm

I have been interviewing several legal professionals lakeside in conducting some research. What has come up over and over again is the poor quality assistance available from notarios and attorneys lakeside. This comment is not mine, but many others. What I personally have found is the lack of consistent information, even among notarios.

Today I interviewed a notario, and 3 associates, at a firm in Guadalajara. The recommendation came from a personal Mexican friend who has known this notario for many years and uses this firm for personal issues and for business issues (this friend is an architect in Guadalajara). Overall, I was pleased with the information I got and impressed that the notario actually had a book in front of him verifying the legal information about which I was asking (what a radical approach!!).

So, for anyone wanting an alternative to lakeside legal professionals and don't know where to start, you may want to start with this firm in Guadalajara:

Vargas & Espinosa (both notarios)

Rafael Vargas Aceves, Notario 114 (no English)
Rafael Vargas Moreno, Abogado (some to good English)

Roberto Espinosa Badial, Notario 113 (some English)
Roberto Espinosa Vera, Abogado, (good English)

Ms. Janneth Sanchez Lopez, Abogado (good English)

Areas in which they work:
Estate Planning/Trusts
Real Estate
Corporate Law
Bank/Finance
Immigration
Contracts
Legal Advice to Businesses

Staff: 20 to 25 persons

Justo Sierra No. 3022
Col. Vallarta San Lucas
C.P. 44690
Tel. 36 15 56 26, or 36 15 56 27

www.notario114.com
www.notario113.com

Law Firm in Guad as an alternative to lakeside legal professionals 87465 Filoli

Sherman
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Post by Intercasa Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:43 pm

The real test is when there is a problem, will the notario tell you sorry, I messed up and it is your problem? Will the notario's work stand up to the test of a lawsuit? This is where most locally fail miserably.

Who is the best? Sadly, at the moment, I don't know, even the lesser of the evils I have no clue!
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Post by Sherman Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:23 am

As always, your points are well taken.

Source: Life Planning in Jalisco, Part II, page 2:
"This is a reminder that we live in Mexico.

“Mexico does not have a bar association with authority to regulate and discipline lawyers” (see LCS Directory 2010, p. 130).

The legal practitioners and court system should not be assumed to have either similar practices or rules from our countries of origin. It is what it is here! If there is a problem with a practitioner or his/her work, or the court system, the recourse is likely limited, if any at all. Expertise and quality varies and documents have been developed that sometimes are not even legally binding or valid in any way anywhere. However, the documents are sometimes prepared at your request just to collect the fee."

In the US, many attorneys have a 'wild' reputation and run their practice on the 'edge' of everything and that's with having a bar association that can 'bounce' them and legal recourse with a court system that's not perfect, but it works a little better than here.

So, here in Mexico, many professionals and individuals get away with a lot because the degree of accountability is not there, and the legal system is not there to 'force' the accountability issue.

In my thinking, until the systems are in place that require and enforce more accountability, it is not likely to be there.

HOWEVER, IT'S REALLY GOOD YOU BRING THIS UP BECAUSE it appears MOST FOREIGNERS HERE DON'T HAVE A CLUE THAT THERE'S BASICALLY NO ACCOUNTABILITY AND LITTLE LEGAL RECOURSE!!

Filoli

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Post by Intercasa Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:53 pm

Supposedly there are professional associations where the members are accountable, this is why those associations have few members.

This is a growing trend, to hold people accountable by encouraging people to join these professional organizations where there is testing and grievance procedures. I'll have to join one for finance in order to be able to work with certain banks.

Believe it or not many people who profess to be attorneys aren't. They do check at the court and will toss your lawsuit if you aren't a real attorney, I'll ask and see where they have the list and if online will post it here so you can see if your attorney is real or fake.

Also if you want to get a bewildered look from any attorney, ask about continuing education. Finding a needle in a haystack is easier than courses for attorneys. Sure they have masters programs but in California there are tons of courses from 1 to 3 days offered each week, although here there is no continuing education requirement. I've been trying to find courses but they are few and most in Mexico City.
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Post by Sherman Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:38 am

Here's what I heard, informally. For the notarios, there's a once-a-year meeting that is supposed to be attended by all of the notarios (I'm assuming by state, but I don't know that) and that's where they get all of the new laws (state and federal). I also don't know if attorneys attend.

One notario in Chapala told me that he had a monthly meeting of notarios. I don't know how far that list of notarios went; just local or including surrounding areas and Guadalajara.

As you know, I have been researching information on durable powers of attorney. There was ONE (1) AND ONLY One who brought up the fact that there are other states in Mexico that have durable powers of attorney. That was by Lic Macias and was on a paper presented by Lic Macias and Dr. Garcia 5 years ago at LCS. So someone around here knew that existed.... There are now 5 states!

I have a person who had graciously made himself available to me and doing the legal research. He is bilingual, bicultural, dual citizen, and is a financial planner who works across all the states of Mexico and the US. He's the best thing since sliced bread!! Because he is used to working across all of the Mexican states, he knew that there are 5 Mexican states that have durable powers of attorney, including Cohuila which has in its civil code a 'medical durable power of attorney.'

Source: Life Planning In Jalisco, Part II, page 4: "These states have “advance designation of guardian (with appropriate powers)” (in other words, durable powers of attorney). These documents are recognized by the State of Jalisco (S. Macias, Notario 5; Lic S. A. Macias, Rafael Vargar, Notario 114, Raoul Rodriguez-Walters).

Coahuila specifically allows for designation of a durable medical power of attorney (Art. 2998, civil code, Art. 3054) and survival of same in the event of incapacity (Macias, et al.)"



Other than Macias, NO ONE ELSE LAKESIDE that I interviewed had a clue about what was going on in any other Mexican state. In one case, a notario told me he did not believe me that any Mexican state had durable powers of attorney and said to me that he did not believe me (he told me that twice) until I could find the legal citation and it was a BIG SURPRISE when I was right.

I am also aware that some say they are attorneys and they are not. There is a big problem now with one locally and he just seems to gain more and more power....and many of the foreign community continue to support and applaud him! On one hand, I say to myself that I don't understand this position. On the other hand, I remind myself that I lived in the Washington DC area for many years when Marion Barry was repeatedly voted in as the mayor (and if you don't know who he is, just dream up as many wild stories as you can think of and that's him).

I've also heard stories that notaries can just 'show up' and hang a sign out with a number and in fact are not notaries.

This is Mexico. And, even if laws or regulations are in place, the enforcement is likely not to be.

Also, as far as an organization that has a grievance procedure and some professional oversight of members, etc Hmmmm. What comes to mind immediately is the realtor group lakeside. While there may be some interest in accountability, there are too many stories and personal experiences to support the accountability idea! My guess is that it may be the same for any other professional group.

I still hold to the idea that if you can't lose your job (your profession) or be sued for everything you own, it is more likely to be more of the same here.
Filoli

P.S. If you find an on-line list, let me know. Thanks. Law Firm in Guad as an alternative to lakeside legal professionals 87465

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