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If this is for real it is scary - Lake City project

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Post by RVGRINGO Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:57 pm

We miss our home in Chapala, but if this project becomes a reality, I will be very happy that we have sold and moved already.

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Post by CanuckBob Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:07 pm

I couldn't care less about the project. I don't see it affecting life that much other than a bit more traffic. The positive is it may bring a younger crowd and some more amenities to the area.
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Post by Rosa Venus Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:39 pm

CanuckBob wrote:The positive is it may bring a younger crowd and some more amenities to the area.

The whole concept, as it was pitched today at the presentation, centers on the developer expecting a flood of baby-boomers to arrive on the shores of Lake Chapala, elderly foreign retirees who sooner or later will need "assisted living" care. Hence the on-site hospital. Even hospice care was talked about.

It was called a "city within a city" concept, with all kinds of services including retail, restaurants, hotel, a casino and small convention center ……but there was no mention of an antro for the younger crowd.

It's a joke. It'll be interesting to watch it not happen. But if something does get built - (doubtful) - I bet anything the "concept" changes.


Last edited by Rosa Venus on Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by gringal Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:45 pm

I'm wondering where they took that baby boomer survey.

My idea of "assisted" living in having a nice Mexican lady in my spare room to help me when I get feeble, if I have the good luck to live long enough to do so.
lol!

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Post by oncesubtle Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:48 pm

I think the idea of assisted living norte is in the neighborhood of 4K per mo. for factory living which would make this look pretty nice.
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Post by Lady Otter Latté Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:49 pm

Rosa, why would you assume the younger crowd would not be anxious to move into a place with a couple thousand old people and watch them move from apartments to assisted living to on-site hospital to hospice care? Nothing like daily reminders of where they too are headed in far fewer years than they can possibly imagine. Good times! cheers
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Post by mapleleaf Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:54 pm

This would be a very expensive project to undertake if done properly. The geological problems some of you have mentioned can be overcome with properly engineered (and costly) solutions. Traffic infrastructure would need to be upgraded. Sewage and water treatment, if done correctly, would have minimal environmental impact. My fear would be that it would be done on the cheap and this huge facility would be plunked down in the middle of narrow cobblestoned streets without prper safeguards in place.
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Post by Lady Otter Latté Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:07 pm

"My fear would be that it would be done on the cheap and this huge facility would be plunked down in the middle of narrow cobblestoned streets without proper safeguards in place."

And, your fear is well placed. That is pretty much how things have gone around here. We have no reasons to assume this would be any different. That questions at today's meeting were answered with "No problem," "We did a study," and "That will be taken of," pretty much seals the deal for many of us.
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Post by viajero Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:21 pm

I find it interesting that out of approximately 250 attendees there were no Mexicans at the presentation and that it was was conducted entirely in English.

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Post by Rosa Venus Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:22 pm

Lady Otter Latté wrote:Rosa, why would you assume the younger crowd would not be anxious to move into a place with a couple thousand old people and watch them move from apartments to assisted living to on-site hospital to hospice care? Nothing like daily reminders of where they too are headed in far fewer years than they can possibly imagine. Good times!  cheers

And now you've made me feel entirely stupid, Lady Otter. OF COURSE! Why didn't I think of it? All they've got to do is broaden the pitch, expand their target market. The whole Goth thing is so popular these days with the younger crowd. And what could be more appealing than death-fixated youngsters moving through common areas among drooling, limb-dragging oldsters? It's perfect.

Grupo Naimar just needs to expand the sales pitch. Beer
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Post by Jim W Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:27 pm

CanuckBob wrote:There is already a vast glut of product on a very weak RE market. Who in their right mind would add another 1500 plus units to this market????



I am on board with you Bob! Muchas inventory! We are selling our home, great construction, selling for approx. $50.00 sq. ft. Selling for health reasons.






























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Post by zenwoodle Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:30 pm

Please don't shoot the messenger.
This is a cut and paste of a post on TOB. Beer Beer

"Lisa Jorgensen here. Here's the editorial I wrote this evening.

Most of us expats are not Mexican citizens, which means we can’t vote, which means politicians can ignore us if they want to. If we make ourselves so disliked that the last thing they want to do is listen to us or talk to us, we will lose our voice and our ability to shape our futures here.

That is why today’s discourteous interaction with the developers of a modern complex was not only embarrassing, but counterproductive. The shoutouts from the back rows, the guffaws, the chronic woe-is-us negativism—the self-righteous belligerence of some in the audience will certainly give pause to other groups contemplating bringing significant issues before us. We just aren’t civil enough—we, ironically, who think we have the advanced civilization. And because of that, we’re losing our voice.

How do I know? Because we’ve lost part of our voice already. Remember the Lake Chapala Society’s Town Meetings? They brought traffic commandants and immigration officials to have some meaningful exchange of information with us. I was there at each one, and I came away incredulous at the rudeness of some members of the audience. They refused to sit down and listen. They came with chips on their shoulders, and were determined that everyone should hear their bellyaching. They ruined it for all of us. The result? No more Town Meetings. And, frankly, it was the one program the Lake Chapala Society had that I thought was relevant to today’s modern expats.

Whether the complex being presented today is a good idea or not is beside the point this evening. These are serious business people with a plan. They presented the plan to the Municipality of Chapala, who gave them the green light. Our job today was to learn. If we want to fight city hall, we should take it up with city hall. I encourage you to start a committee (of courteous people) to talk with city hall. If I were them, I’m not so sure how responsive I’d be, given our inability to be civil. We seem to forget that we are guests here."
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Post by Lady Otter Latté Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:56 pm

And, who knows more than Lisa Jorgensen about how being personally disliked makes listening to you the last thing people want to do?
I did not attend the meeting so I can not say how accurate her depiction is but her authoritative, self-righteous talking down to the rabble does nothing to make me confident she can speak effectively for anyone.
Lisa has written nothing to convince me that these are "serious business people." From what some people's research has shown it is very difficult to find the successes they boast about. That she prefers lecturing the people who object rather than filling in the gaps of the developers history and informing us about the reports and studies they claim to have done is interesting.
How funny that she considers receiving a green light from the Municipality of Chapala as proof of a company's good intentions for the community. Parking meters anyone?
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Post by Lady Otter Latté Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:01 pm

No need to feel stupid for not seeing the marketing appeal, Rosa. Some of us are just more creative thinkers than others is all.
I am sure Grupo Naimar will come around soon. As you so quickly realized, it is a can't miss marketing strategy!
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Post by Stu Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:08 pm

So some gringos are upset at a possible change in "their" community. Never mind the many jobs this project could possibly create for the workers in "their" community.

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Post by Pedro Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:20 pm

much ado about nothing[will shakeyerspear] by the usual suspects-SNORK!
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Post by borderreiver Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:31 pm

This whole project has massive ongoing entertainment potential. We'll call that area there - Lourdes. I think that's its actual name. I was warned off it 5 yrs. ago by a Mx/Am resident. It's a seismic nightmare. Her water supply, from her providing municipal supply/well came in at 75 degrees. Not exactly ground temp. - 55 degrees. Kitty corner from Monte Carlo above the old 711 in that new primarily vacant mallete there are some townhouseish places going on. Structurally crackings and such were going on 6 months after completion. That was 2 years ago. 6 months after completion there was evidence the whole shitaroo was sliding downhill. Like my MC and "Swim Club" though.
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Post by Stu Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:44 pm

When was the last earthquake of note in Chapala?

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Post by viajero Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:49 pm

"..we are expat residents,hear us roar!"..dogsrus on chapala.com.,commenting favorably on the hecklers at the presentation.
Amazing.

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Post by CanuckBob Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:24 am

zenwoodle wrote:Please don't shoot the messenger.
This is a cut and paste of a post on TOB.  Beer  Beer

"Lisa Jorgensen here. Here's the editorial I wrote this evening.

Most of us expats are not Mexican citizens, which means we can’t vote, which means politicians can ignore us if they want to. If we make ourselves so disliked that the last thing they want to do is listen to us or talk to us, we will lose our voice and our ability to shape our futures here.

That is why today’s discourteous interaction with the developers of a modern complex was not only embarrassing, but counterproductive. The shoutouts from the back rows, the guffaws, the chronic woe-is-us negativism—the self-righteous belligerence of some in the audience will certainly give pause to other groups contemplating bringing significant issues before us. We just aren’t civil enough—we, ironically, who think we have the advanced civilization. And because of that, we’re losing our voice.

How do I know? Because we’ve lost part of our voice already. Remember the Lake Chapala Society’s Town Meetings? They brought traffic commandants and immigration officials to have some meaningful exchange of information with us. I was there at each one, and I came away incredulous at the rudeness of some members of the audience. They refused to sit down and listen. They came with chips on their shoulders, and were determined that everyone should hear their bellyaching. They ruined it for all of us. The result? No more Town Meetings. And, frankly, it was the one program the Lake Chapala Society had that I thought was relevant to today’s modern expats.

Whether the complex being presented today is a good idea or not is beside the point this evening. These are serious business people with a plan. They presented the plan to the Municipality of Chapala, who gave them the green light. Our job today was to learn. If we want to fight city hall, we should take it up with city hall. I encourage you to start a committee (of courteous people) to talk with city hall. If I were them, I’m not so sure how responsive I’d be, given our inability to be civil. We seem to forget that we are guests here."

While I don't know Lisa I totally agree with what she is saying here.
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Post by solajijic Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:12 am

Stu, I am not sure when, in that area of Chapala, the house that rolled and collapsed on the young pregnant woman was the result of an earthquake or not. Does anyone remember when it was, '03 maybe or '05? But at least within recent memory.

The last time the earth moved enough to splash the water out of the pool here in Ajijic was maybe 18 months, but the smaller tremors which move the chandeliers are so often we have stopped noticing. We live one of the fault lines running thru the village so probably notice the tremors more readily than the general population.

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Post by Pedro Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:34 am

the point is, there are several fault lines up in lourdes including around the chapel and houses near by, from previous quakes.
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Post by Pedro Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:39 am

solajijic wrote:Stu, I am not sure when, in that area of Chapala, the house that rolled and collapsed on the young pregnant woman was the result of an earthquake or not.  Does anyone remember when it was, '03 maybe or '05? But at least within recent memory.  

The last time the earth moved enough to splash the water out of the pool here in Ajijic was maybe 18 months, but the smaller tremors which move the chandeliers are so often we have stopped noticing.  We live one of the fault lines running thru the village so probably notice the tremors more readily than the general population.  
that was on the other side of the hill in tepehua and it was a huge bolder that got dislodged and crushed her house. i think it may have been around 2000 when a bunch of buildings in guadalajara were also damaged and destroyed.
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Post by Stu Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:04 am

solajijic wrote:Stu, I am not sure when, in that area of Chapala, the house that rolled and collapsed on the young pregnant woman was the result of an earthquake or not.  Does anyone remember when it was, '03 maybe or '05? But at least within recent memory.  

The last time the earth moved enough to splash the water out of the pool here in Ajijic was maybe 18 months, but the smaller tremors which move the chandeliers are so often we have stopped noticing.  We live one of the fault lines running thru the village so probably notice the tremors more readily than the general population.  

As I said "of note". There was one very small quake centered near Jocotepec a few years ago. The rest of what you have felt have been centered at quite a distance form the area. The whole area is not considered at high risk for earthquakes.

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Post by Stu Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:05 am

Pedro wrote: i think it may have been around 2000 when a bunch of buildings in guadalajara were also damaged and destroyed.

Say what?

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Post by Lady Otter Latté Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:27 am

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