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The Lunatics Rule The Asylum

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Clete
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itsme
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Post by ltollefs Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:54 pm

Shit-stain of a pastor declares that the "tragedy is that more of them didn’t die." Now I know that Christianity is above all else about compassion, and perhaps money, but I have trouble reconciling this statement with the popular notion of Christian Love™. Perhaps someone here can help me.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/06/sacramento-pastor-praises-orlando-massacre/

...and note that he is not the only American "man of god" who is making such pronouncements.


Last edited by ltollefs on Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : link broken)

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Post by Carry Bean Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:41 pm

gringal wrote:
Carry Bean wrote:They didn't have the info in those days that they'd have now so they did the best they could with what they had.

You mean that with all our information now, we could pick and choose among the Muslims which ones to deport and which to leave in their homes and running their businesses?  The Donald keeps it simple: ship them all out.

 In yesterdays' news, it was revealed that the FBI had conducted an investigation on the Florida shooter for ten months.  Looks like that didn't help.  We had spies galore in the WWII days, too.  We can go back centuries and find that spying has always been profitable and existed everywhere.


Gee, I wasn't aware that they're rounding up Muslims & putting them in camps. Maybe I missed something.

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Post by Carry Bean Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:49 pm

You can put the blame on the Republicans as was posted earlier who blocked preventing people being investigated by the FBI getting guns. As to Japanese camps & businesses being confiscated, the US wasn't the only government doing it. Canada did too.

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Post by itsme Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:28 pm

gringal wrote:I liked Toedippers intelligent comments on the problems in the U.S.  Maybe they are the inevitable result of a country comprised of immigrants from many different cultures, most of whom are only a few generations from arrival.

There is one thing about the "bearing of arms" that we need to clarify:  it's one thing to own a hand gun for "protection" and quite another to claim that you need a machine gun.  Fifty dead people wouldn't have happened in Florida if the shooter had only a handgun to work with.  That's the area the lawmakers should concern themselves with, and what logical argument can anyone make against tighter controls?
"Comes the Revolution"???

BTW: Lady O and Playaboy:  Can't you two argue without getting nasty? The Lunatics Rule The Asylum - Page 4 223506

FYI
The shooter did not have a machine gun or an assault rifle, he had a Glock and an AK 15 rifle. I understand the Glock can hold many rounds, but both are single fire weapons.

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Post by itsme Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:29 pm

gringal wrote:I liked Toedippers intelligent comments on the problems in the U.S.  Maybe they are the inevitable result of a country comprised of immigrants from many different cultures, most of whom are only a few generations from arrival.

There is one thing about the "bearing of arms" that we need to clarify:  it's one thing to own a hand gun for "protection" and quite another to claim that you need a machine gun.  Fifty dead people wouldn't have happened in Florida if the shooter had only a handgun to work with.  That's the area the lawmakers should concern themselves with, and what logical argument can anyone make against tighter controls?
"Comes the Revolution"???

BTW: Lady O and Playaboy:  Can't you two argue without getting nasty? The Lunatics Rule The Asylum - Page 4 223506

FYI
The shooter did not have a machine gun or an assault rifle, he had a Glock and an AK 15 rifle. I understand the Glock can hold many rounds, but both are single fire weapons.

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Post by itsme Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:02 pm

ltollefs wrote:Shit-stain of a pastor declares that the "tragedy is that more of them didn’t die." Now I know that Christianity is above all else about compassion, and perhaps money, but I have trouble reconciling this statement with the popular notion of Christian Love™. Perhaps someone here can help me.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/06/sacramento-pastor-praises-orlando-massacre/

...and note that he is not the only American "man of god" who is making such pronouncements.

And YOU are judging all Christians by the words of one, a bit prejudicial wouldn't you say? Something like judging all Muslims by the actions of one? Hypocritical aren't we?

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Post by gringal Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:09 pm

I don't think anyone is blaming all Christian pastors for the rhetoric of a few.

There are those who believe that the Christian God made people the way they are, and that includes gays as well.

There are the "haters" who lump all people of any race as having evil intentions towards others.  Then there are people with common sense, who know better.

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Post by slainte39 Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:25 pm

The cold blooded killer hid  behind the US Constitution, which some believe was written or at least, inspired by God.
The 1st amendment allowed him to voice his love of jihadist groups and activities and the 2nd amendment allowed him to purchase the firearms to carry out his evil act.
Isn't it time to do some revision and not consider this document as sacrosanct.
It wasn't even written on stone.

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Post by Flamingo Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:11 pm

itsme wrote:
FYI
The shooter did not have a machine gun or an assault rifle, he had a Glock and an AK 15 rifle. I understand the Glock can hold many rounds, but both are single fire weapons.

Not true. It was an AK 15-style assault rifle. NOT a single fire weapon.
Updated info from Washington Post


Last edited by Flamingo on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by ltollefs Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:35 am

ltollefs wrote:Shit-stain of a pastor declares that the "tragedy is that more of them didn’t die." Now I know that Christianity is above all else about compassion, and perhaps money, but I have trouble reconciling this statement with the popular notion of Christian Love™. Perhaps someone here can help me.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/06/sacramento-pastor-praises-orlando-massacre/

...and note that he is not the only American "man of god" who is making such pronouncements.

And YOU are judging all Christians by the words of one, a bit prejudicial wouldn't you say? Something like judging all Muslims by the actions of one? Hypocritical aren't we?
[/quote]

"And YOU are judging all Christians by the words of one". Really? Care to support that assertion with anything even approximating actual evidence? I'll wait. ...but I won't hold my breath.
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Post by Halfglass Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:20 am

Wow, after reading four pages of comments, some not so well informed and some being one sided. I decided I would throw in my two cents.
First, I was a licensed federal firearms dealer for over a decade and an avid firearms collector for over forty years.
Let me say that not all states require the rigorous requirements that Playboy had to undergo for a concealed weapons permit. The state I came from only asked what the purpose was and there was a fingerprinting that was done, oh and a fee of course.
I carried a concealed weapon when I traveled, when asked why my reply was I look at it like a bumper jack. As long as I did not have a flat tire I did not need it. It is a tool and no more.
As far as the miss conception on the term of Assault Weapon, one that can fire multiple shots with the pull of the trigger (or automatic). These are only allowed by special license from the ATF.
The Assault *Style* Weapon is one that fires one round with each pull of the trigger. This is what was used by the shooter in Orlando.
Hope this clarifies the issue. Not condoning eater or.
The gun culture is another topic all in its own.
I do believe that better background checks are needed and a longer waiting period to let the check be done properly. This is not to deprive anyone of their 2and Amendment rights, but to insure that the person applying is able to pass the check.
As for the bill that is being pushed before congress to be able to block individuals who are on the No Fly List from purchasing guns, the problem with that is it denies the individual of due process. Also one of the Constructional Amendments. This is probably the only time you will see the ACLU and the NRA on the same page. Remedy, have a court of review to so an individual can repeal his denial of purchase.
Trouble is that it is a big emotional issue on both sides with compromise had to achieve.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Trailrunner Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:34 pm

Yep. Exactly.

And in case you haven't seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

Hilarious and now there's a part 2.
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Post by itsme Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:03 pm

ltollefs wrote:
ltollefs wrote:Shit-stain of a pastor declares that the "tragedy is that more of them didn’t die." Now I know that Christianity is above all else about compassion, and perhaps money, but I have trouble reconciling this statement with the popular notion of Christian Love™. Perhaps someone here can help me.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/06/sacramento-pastor-praises-orlando-massacre/

...and note that he is not the only American "man of god" who is making such pronouncements.

And YOU are judging all Christians by the words of one, a bit prejudicial wouldn't you say? Something like judging all Muslims by the actions of one? Hypocritical aren't we?

"And YOU are judging all Christians by the words of one". Really? Care to support that assertion with anything even approximating actual evidence? I'll wait. ...but I won't hold my breath.[/quote]

It is in your very first sentence. This one Pastor does not speak for all Christianity.

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Post by gringal Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:58 pm

There are religious people; there are bigots; those who are tolerant of people who don't follow their path and those who would herd others at gunpoint if they could get away with it.  No religion on planet Earth lacks some of all the above, so singling out the words of one or more people offering their point of view can't be fair to all followers of that faith .

The vindictive pastor's karma is to be stuck living in his hateful brain where the sun doesn't shine. That's punishment enough.

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Post by Rosa Venus Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:10 pm

Trailrunner wrote:And in case you haven't seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

Hilarious and now there's a part 2.

Thanks for the link. Howlingly funny. And smart. Both parts. (Not for those who can't handle coarse language.)
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Post by Clete Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:25 pm

Playaboy presented the argument that because Mexicans aren't allowed firearms (they are but with restrictions) the cartels can have their way with the citizenry. That is an argument that many gun lunatics use in the USA. That argument is complete bullshit and incredibly naive.

What good does an AK47 do Juan Corona and his family, normal hardworking Mexicans just trying to live peacefully? The cartels stage fierce gun battles among themselves, instigate gun battles with well armed and trained federal police and even take on the armed forces when they feel the urge. Shit, they shot down a helicopter last year near La Huerta, Jalisco which was just part of the organized and well coordinated violence that weekend. If those people want to mess you up, you are screwed. Even if Juan successfully defended his home by killing several bad guys, you can rest assure he better pack up and head for NOB because they will be back sooner or later with enough men and weapons to guarantee everyone in that house dies.

So maybe Playaboy can tell us just how effective a homeowner with a semi-automatic weapon is against organized crime killers.

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Post by Bajabrady Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:38 pm

Definitely the fun debate is a great political platform. An argument politicians love. I think the perp being portrayed on the news as being a closet homo an interesting twist that Isis will hate.

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Post by Flamingo Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:09 pm

Samantha Bee nails it

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Post by slainte39 Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:42 pm

Clete wrote:Playaboy presented the argument that because Mexicans aren't allowed firearms (they are but with restrictions) the cartels can have their way with the citizenry. That is an argument that many gun lunatics use in the USA. That argument is complete bullshit and incredibly naive.

What good does an AK47 do Juan Corona and his family, normal hardworking Mexicans just trying to live peacefully? The cartels stage fierce gun battles among themselves, instigate gun battles with well armed and trained federal police and even take on the armed forces when they feel the urge. Shit, they shot down a helicopter last year near La Huerta, Jalisco which was just part of the organized and well coordinated violence that weekend. If those people want to mess you up, you are screwed. Even if Juan successfully defended his home by killing several bad guys, you can rest assure he better pack up and head for NOB because they will be back sooner or later with enough men and weapons to guarantee everyone in that house dies.

So maybe Playaboy can tell us just how effective a homeowner with a semi-automatic weapon is against organized crime killers.

Exactly.....I wonder how quick he going to throw down on a cartel situation in Michoacán if he comes up against it.
A lot of big gun talk on the internet.

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Post by Zedinmexico Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:28 am

Yes Mexicans and Mexicans residents can have fire arms but only in ones house. No open or concealed carry allowed without very special permits you are not going to get. Other restrictions are no large caliber handguns. New guns may be purchased in Mexico city at the Army Armory I believe and returned to home with a permit. Local guns can be permitted by going to the Army base in Guad. Do follow all instructions exactly!!

So yes you can have certain guns at your house in Mexico with proper paperwork but no public carry of any kind.

Z

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Post by lilikoi Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:42 pm

This nutty buddy was pinging bad radar since high school and in many of his "security guard" positions long long before the FBI started looking at him. Another thing that needs reform is mental health law, because many people stated there was something radically wrong (no pun intended) but the mental health system can't do anything unless the potential homicidal maniac "does something".
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Post by Guest Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:15 am

[quote="CanuckBob"]The last civil war in the US was over slavery, will the next one be over guns? [/quote]

Bob I think you hit the nail on the head! I think a big problem is coming to the U.S. on gun regulations.

There are many in the U.S. that should not be allowed to own a gun.... Many!

In all the mass shootings I've tried to find at least one "mass shooting" done by a legal permit carrying gun owner. Can someone please give a link to one please?

Many of the CWP, CCP or CPL holders are current or ex military and police (As I am). These people are trained.

For myself,  I was 14 when I owned my first gun and it was a muzzle loader, in fact my first three guns were muzzle loaders. My father was an Ex Detroit Police Officer and took us to the range and taught us how to shoot all the time.

When I got older (19) I joined the Army (Combat engineer  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineer )  and we trained even in the dark ( one person give a scenario about a night club and how hard it would be to fire back.)  
Some of us trained at night wearing NBC gear with gas masks, CS gas popped around us, while A10's fly over head shooting 30 mm rounds and dropping 500 pound bombs! So a night club with screaming people would be no more confusing.  

After I got out and got my CPL I continued taking tactical shooting classes at "Firearms Academy of Seattle" http://www.firearmsacademy.com/ one thing that made me differ from most others is I did not stop there I also had insurance (for if I had to use my weapon) from Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc. https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/ at this place I was taught the gun laws (for the U.S. & Wa. State) on when and when not to shoot or defend another person.

Both of these organizations are owned and the instructors are either Ex military or police. In fact the "Firearms Academy of Seattle" trained (and still does) all the police and law enforcement for the State of Washington.  
These organizations were setup with the help and with the guidelines of Massad Ayoob Don't know who he is?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob  

To speak to (someone said something like "but you need to train constant") While living in Washington State I went to the range every Tuesday for shooting practice. At this one range any current duty or past duty military or police could shoot for free. To I constantly trained.

Although I do understand I am an exception and not the rule a blanket statement of all CCW, CPL owners are untrained and or lunatics is unfounded. There are many more than a person realizes that are trained and highly trained in the use of a firearm and even in the laws pertaining to the use of firearms.

P.S. Bob, these comments are not directed to you. Your the one that I'm just talking to on this subject. I'm sure others will chime in soon enough......

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Post by Lady Otter Latté Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:17 am

So, how many constantly train? I will settle for a percentage.
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Post by Playaboy Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:46 am

Lady Otter Latté wrote:So, how many constantly train? I will settle for a percentage.

You will SETTLE for a percentage? Nobody owes you any answers. Permit owners only need to answer to the government.

You will twist and spin whatever the answer is to your narrow, uncompromising, your way is the only way, point of view.

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Post by Guest Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:47 am

[quote="Playaboy"][quote="Lady Otter Latté"]So, how many constantly train? I will settle for a percentage.[/quote]

You will SETTLE for a percentage?  Nobody owes you any answers. Permit owners only need to answer to the government.

You will twist and spin whatever the answer is to your narrow, uncompromising, your way is the only way, point of view.  [/quote]

Seeing that I'm only concerned about myself and that would make the answer to your question 100% But I will say there are some Dip-Shits out there with CPL, CCP ........... No question!

Shoot Playboy I was going to give the percentage (estimate)  of how many train of CPL, CWP holders of about ( a guess ) of 10% to 30% As compared to mass shooting being done by legal gun permit holders to .00001%.
As you know Playboy there are some where above 300,000,000 guns owned in the U.S. Of this the mass shootings are done with illegal guns (the shooter not being the legal owner of the gun). My guess would be that there might be some 30,000,000 illegal guns in the U.S. so at that guess that puts the % at 10% illegal guns.
As we know more gun laws will stop these mass shootings, at least that is some peoples logic.

What this person does not know is that a person that has a CPL, CCP or CPW "must" go through a background check, can't have a felony, or a violent arrest on their record. The background check we go through is so stringent and thorough that this administration uses the very same background check to vet any immigrants that come to the U.S.    

So there should be "no question" as to how accurate and safe it is! ;-)

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Post by Lady Otter Latté Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:55 am

Since my son and his wife, and my daughter and her husband all have CCPs as well as multiple weapons in their homes I know more about responsible gun ownership than you smugly assume. I also know that the U.S. has a gun and gun violence problem. Prattle on.
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