Love in Action

Having read much about the debacle at Love in Action, all caused by foreigners, it seems to me that they are in need of a visit from INM and Hacienda. What do the rest of you think?

Agree.

I'm not sure what's the best course of action. Perhaps Spencer will weigh in on this.

So what happened?

More battles have been fought in the name of God than any other cause. Why they listened to a few gringo busy bodies in the first place is beyond me but there it is.

As to religion/orphans issues, it is my opinion that it makes no difference what type of main stream religion they are exposed to since they all give them moral lessons.

Or you could recite the agnostic prayer with the kids when you take them fishing. "O my God, if there is a God, save my soul, if I have a soul."

Fin.

This is what I've gathered from articles in the Guadalajara Reporter including a letter from the Chair of the Advisory Committee, and posts on Crapola.com:

Three fundamentalist gringos have inserted themselves into the management and operations LiA. They have no work permits and are not spanish speakers. They changed the "mission statement" to include the term "Christ centered" which the Advisory committee did not agree with. The AC was subsequently declared "the enemy" and eventually resigned en masse as a result of the hostility of the new folks. The AC was made up of several major contributors to LIA. The new gringos have expressed how appalled they are that "less than 3% of Mexicans are evengelical christians" and came to Mexico to change that. So far their principal accomplishment has been to alienate the donor base of LiA. One of the gringas is now running operations and is reputedly being paid under the table. Many of the volunteers are no longer welcome and the kids have been turned against them.

David wrote:This is what I've gathered from articles in the Guadalajara Reporter including a letter from the Chair of the Advisory Committee, and posts on Crapola.com:

Three fundamentalist gringos have inserted themselves into the management and operations LiA. They have no work permits and are not spanish speakers. They changed the "mission statement" to include the term "Christ centered" which the Advisory committee did not agree with. The AC was subsequently declared "the enemy" and eventually resigned en masse as a result of the hostility of the new folks. The AC was made up of several major contributors to LIA. The new gringos have expressed how appalled they are that "less than 3% of Mexicans are evengelical christians" and came to Mexico to change that. So far their principal accomplishment has been to alienate the donor base of LiA. One of the gringas is now running operations and is reputedly being paid under the table. Many of the volunteers are no longer welcome and the kids have been turned against them.

Sounds like unless you contribute financially to the organization you shouldn't do anything. And even if you do contribute, why involve the authorities?

Gringos sure seem to complicate things.

Why cannot everybody get along? Too many people making mountains out of molehills and get rabid if religion or politics are mentioned.

Do you really want to bring down an orphanage and have the kids on the street being beaten and raped so you can sit home in your comfy chair knowing your enemy religion or group will not be promoting what you don´t like to hear?

Start your own charity and do it your way if you want changes and really want to help those who are vulnerable, why attack and hurt?

David, I read the same posts and news stories, and didn't come to the same conclusion. The original founder, Anabel, is a Christian. It's not a case of a secular orphanage being taken over by Christians. Anyone who doesn't believe in this particular charity can go ahead and find something you DO believe in, and support that. Contribute to a secular orphanage - if you can find one. Or, as Intercasa suggested, start your own orphanage.

You should NOT repeat allegations that "one of the gringas is reputedly being paid under the table" and other slanderous accusations unless you have proof. That sort of rumour-mongering is grossly unfair.

The fact remains that these three swooped in and threw a decent charity into chaos, all in the name of religion. Throughout history, debacles in the name of religion have been the major cause of unrest in the world.

I like to help people. I don't care what their religion is or how they vote. Too many of us come here and think we can finally grab that power we've been lusting after all our lives. Forgetting charities for the moment, just look at the damage done to the various fraccs around here thanks to gringo meddling.

I raised this for open to discussion. I'm not taking any action for the simple reason that I'm NOT involved with LiA. I've not posted anything that wasn't in the GR, Letters to the GR and in a thread on TOB. IMHO Lia has been irreparably harmed by the departure of virtually all of the major benefactors.

HelperGuy wrote:The fact remains that these three swooped in and threw a decent charity into chaos, all in the name of religion.

Who are "these three"?

Just FYI, look up "Deeper Waters Ministry" and find out what the organization is about. Google is the first friend we need to consult on many matters.

On the one hand, we have people willing to devote their lives to what they believe and to helping orphans and abused kids. This has to be good. (That is, unless the donations are being diverted to an upscale lifestyle for the directors.)

On the other hand, the same people believe that their path is the only path and will be indoctrinating said kids with their beliefs, which are not part of any mainstream religion. They are one of those groups who believes everybody that isn't part of their group is going to hell. This may be just hearsay from TOB, but supposedly, "Bible study" starts early in the morning. Maybe that isn't so good.

However, as another poster pointed out; LIA is the only game in town as far as I know and kids are being fed, clothed and housed........so unless somebody else is willing to step up and start their own operation.........how about we just "let it be"? If I were a hungry or abused kid, I wouldn't be worrying about the sect feeding me.
Back in the USA, those who go for a meal at the Salvation Army know they gotta listen to a preacher. Such is life.

Traveller wrote:

HelperGuy wrote:The fact remains that these three swooped in and threw a decent charity into chaos, all in the name of religion.

Who are "these three"?

If you'd read "everything" I read you'd know. Review the posts on crapola.com and the letters in the GR.

I believe that the evangelical bent of the new director and her helpers is not only alienating major supporters of LIA but is harmful to the children's best interests. By admission only 3% of Mexicans are evangelical. These children are so disadvantaged from childhood that to have them espouse an evangelical religious mindset is to separate them for life from their religious cultural community which is predominately Catholic.

Most of these children will grow to adulthood and live at poverty level, some will get beyond that but realistically not many. To remove them from the commonality of the major religion of their prospective community is such an incredible disservice to their future. They should be attending mass, learning and celebrating all the saints days, taking their 1st communions with their school mates and participating in the religious celebrations ingrained in the culture.

David asked for discussion.

....and celebrating the fiestas of the Patronale, Holy Cross, and Virgin de
Guadalupe. All of which fundamentalists blow off.

gringal wrote:However, as another poster pointed out; LIA is the only game in town as far as I know and kids are being fed, clothed and housed........so unless somebody else is willing to step up and start their own operation.........how about we just "let it be"? If I were a hungry or abused kid, I wouldn't be worrying about the sect feeding me.
Back in the USA, those who go for a meal at the Salvation Army know they gotta listen to a preacher. Such is life.

In general I'm in agreement, but I wonder "what cost": when despots rule, plebes suffer. Again I point out that there has been more suffering in the name of religion than for any other reason, and it's easy to say "Yeah, but you get fed." Heck, there was at least one senior's home here where that rule applies, but the residents would agree that being fed only a bun at supper is not like getting a real meal.

Heck, we haven't even discussed the worth of the term "Christian" anyway... I have a big problem with that one right out of the gate.

According to their own information on the Deeper Water website and their news/blog posts, they need FM-3 visas. They have no money, they are asking for/raising money in the US for their work in Mexico, and then working in Mexico. They ARE working for renumeration in Mexico.

If they have no legal status in Mexico other than a tourist visa, how can they authorize anything in the name of the orphanage or for any kids living there who are unrelated by blood or adoption, such as medical care in case of emergency treatment?

As they would say: Crazy really!!

Do they attend school ?

For the record, I do not advocate reporting anyone to the authorities. These things have a way of sorting themselves out by themselves.

About 7 years ago there was a man in El Chante who came to my attention through Cruz Roja because he said he was a doctor and was saving lives in the name of Jesus in Chante. Ok. Whatever.

Shortly after that, lots of folks began talking about him and his website came to light. Sure enough, there were pictures of the impoverished children of Chante and the good doctor. More pictures of him and the nuns of SJC. This website was begging for money from the people in his church and his friends in the US. He was on a mission to save the poor of Mexico from themselves. Lots of lies and innuendos.

Long story short - POOF! Before anyone knew it, he was gone! Not only that, but it came to light that he was not a doctor, per se, but a disbarred chiropractor from MN.

These folks are not the first to come down our pike and they won't be the last.

What Solajic says is very true and I agree it's not good for the kids to be indoctrinated in a small religious sect apart from the mainstream.

However, this still brings us back to the question of who else is going to step up to the plate and set up a non-sectarian center that will serve their basic physical needs?

LiA was working just fine and was well supported untill these new missionary types with their agenda came on the seen. They say they're here to help. IMHO, "help" should always be defined by the recipient.

The people they've alienated are long-time residents. Something's amiss when a few folks come here on "Tourist Visas" and disrupt the good work of local residents.

I still think they need a visit from INM and Hacienda.

David wrote:LiA was working just fine and was well supported untill these new missionary types with their agenda came on the seen. They say they're here to help. IMHO, "help" should always be defined by the recipient.

The people they've alienated are long-time residents. Something's amiss when a few folks come here on "Tourist Visas" and disrupt the good work of local residents.

I still think they need a visit from INM and Hacienda.

Maybe you're right. The thing I'm not hearing is how these new people came in and took over, when there was local management in place already. Didn't anyone protest? Wasn't there a vote with majority rule or something?
What happened? The information on TOB wasn't very clear.

And, if they are to have a visit from INM and Hacienda...........who's going to volunteer to cause that???

Good grief, just reviewed the Deep Water web site. Kari is Doug's (the pastors) wife and they have three children aged 16, 10 and 9. Wow...