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State of the Lake
by CanuckBob Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:52 pm
Someone sent me this recent discussion by Todd Strong on the state of the lake:
Hi all
>
> At Open Circle today, Todd Stong spoke to an overflow crowd (a measure
> of the respect held for him and the concerns people have about the
> lake). His talk was not "uplifting" in relation to the recovery of the
> level of the lake. As he has previously, he spoke very positively
> about the quality of the water. To demonstrate that point, he took one
> L of lake water, dipped his finger in bleach to the second knuckle,
> then stirred the water with that finger. After letting the water set
> while he spoke, he then drank from the water he had treated.
>
> However, he says that as the water level drops, the concentration of
> minerals in the water raises significantly. The lake level is now at
> 40% of capacity. At 25% the concentration of minerals would be so high
> that the water treatment facilities in Guad would not be able to cope
> with it; no one wants to talk about that!.
>
> The fish-farming experiment has proven that a single fish pen can
> produce catfish worth $250,000 in a year - with a small number of pens,
> the revenue would far exceed what 3,000 fishermen can realize from the
> declining natural stock. Todd has been meeting with government
> authorities and has a meeting coming up with the Governor of Jalisco.
> They like to talk money but not responsibility.
>
> The water filtration plant that was built in one of the small villages
> has proven to be a profit generator. Ironically, people distrusted the
> water quality because the price was so low. So, they increased the
> price and more people started to buy it.
>
> Todd has tried to convince Guad that he can show the authorities how to
> reduce consumption and generate water revenues that exceed their
> present supply costs. He can't get the decision makers interested.
>
> The importance of the lake level? If the lake goes dry, Guad dies!
> (scary pronouncement)
>
> There are solutions to the problem but they require interest groups to
> give up revenues and control - and no one will agree to that. The
> authorities who can contribute to the solutions are part of the
> problem. The federal government authority that controls water
> concession has granted 50 to 70% more concessions than there is water
> flow capacity in the Lerma River that feeds the lake. And that
> authority collects money for those concessions.
>
> The pipeline from the lake to Guad is large enough to drive a VW
> through it. 30% of what is pumped is lost by leakage, and that will
> only get worse. (From an earlier talk Todd gave - the useful life of
> the metal pipe has long since been passed, and the authority in charge
> does not have a single length of spare pipe with which to fix a rupture
> when - not if - it occurs).
>
> Over recent months, Todd has reviewed over 1,200 pages of studies,
> reports and analyses, all dealing with Lake Chapala issues, by many
> different qualified individuals and groups, including the World Health
> Organization and the UN. The stumbling block is not lack of
> information; rather, it is getting through the disinformation. The
> situation is confounded by greed and stupidity. (Sounds like Canadian
> politics!)
>
> There is no high level interest in addressing the local concerns.
> There are 12 million stakeholders' reps south of the lake, arguing
> with 6 million stakeholders' reps in Guad, and the voices of 300,000
> directly at lakeside are not being heard.
>
> It is a myth that lack of rainfall is the problem. Properly managed
> the water basin that feeds the lake could meet all Guad's water
> requirements for 50 years, and at the proper level of the lake, the
> lake at any point in time would serve as a reservoir for 8 months of
> Guad's water requirements. Water management is the problem.
>
> A dirty secret that the government(s) do not want disclosed is that
> there are 15 high capacity pumps constantly running to take water from
> the lake to create flow for the generation of electricity (which
> creates revenues). The authorities deny that the 300 foot long pumping
> station even exists. There is no naturally occurring outflow from the
> lake. The last year that there was outflow was 1978 when the lake
> level was at a high level.
>
> Another major hurdle is to change the "Aztec" thinking about corn being
> the most important crop. Switching to alternative crops, such as
> tomatoes, would provide many multiples of crop values and revenues,
> using less than 10% of the irrigation water now being misused.
>
> Todd claims that given the authority to change the way in which the
> water is managed, he could fill the lake to capacity in two weeks!
>
> In all, not a positive presentation.
Hi all
>
> At Open Circle today, Todd Stong spoke to an overflow crowd (a measure
> of the respect held for him and the concerns people have about the
> lake). His talk was not "uplifting" in relation to the recovery of the
> level of the lake. As he has previously, he spoke very positively
> about the quality of the water. To demonstrate that point, he took one
> L of lake water, dipped his finger in bleach to the second knuckle,
> then stirred the water with that finger. After letting the water set
> while he spoke, he then drank from the water he had treated.
>
> However, he says that as the water level drops, the concentration of
> minerals in the water raises significantly. The lake level is now at
> 40% of capacity. At 25% the concentration of minerals would be so high
> that the water treatment facilities in Guad would not be able to cope
> with it; no one wants to talk about that!.
>
> The fish-farming experiment has proven that a single fish pen can
> produce catfish worth $250,000 in a year - with a small number of pens,
> the revenue would far exceed what 3,000 fishermen can realize from the
> declining natural stock. Todd has been meeting with government
> authorities and has a meeting coming up with the Governor of Jalisco.
> They like to talk money but not responsibility.
>
> The water filtration plant that was built in one of the small villages
> has proven to be a profit generator. Ironically, people distrusted the
> water quality because the price was so low. So, they increased the
> price and more people started to buy it.
>
> Todd has tried to convince Guad that he can show the authorities how to
> reduce consumption and generate water revenues that exceed their
> present supply costs. He can't get the decision makers interested.
>
> The importance of the lake level? If the lake goes dry, Guad dies!
> (scary pronouncement)
>
> There are solutions to the problem but they require interest groups to
> give up revenues and control - and no one will agree to that. The
> authorities who can contribute to the solutions are part of the
> problem. The federal government authority that controls water
> concession has granted 50 to 70% more concessions than there is water
> flow capacity in the Lerma River that feeds the lake. And that
> authority collects money for those concessions.
>
> The pipeline from the lake to Guad is large enough to drive a VW
> through it. 30% of what is pumped is lost by leakage, and that will
> only get worse. (From an earlier talk Todd gave - the useful life of
> the metal pipe has long since been passed, and the authority in charge
> does not have a single length of spare pipe with which to fix a rupture
> when - not if - it occurs).
>
> Over recent months, Todd has reviewed over 1,200 pages of studies,
> reports and analyses, all dealing with Lake Chapala issues, by many
> different qualified individuals and groups, including the World Health
> Organization and the UN. The stumbling block is not lack of
> information; rather, it is getting through the disinformation. The
> situation is confounded by greed and stupidity. (Sounds like Canadian
> politics!)
>
> There is no high level interest in addressing the local concerns.
> There are 12 million stakeholders' reps south of the lake, arguing
> with 6 million stakeholders' reps in Guad, and the voices of 300,000
> directly at lakeside are not being heard.
>
> It is a myth that lack of rainfall is the problem. Properly managed
> the water basin that feeds the lake could meet all Guad's water
> requirements for 50 years, and at the proper level of the lake, the
> lake at any point in time would serve as a reservoir for 8 months of
> Guad's water requirements. Water management is the problem.
>
> A dirty secret that the government(s) do not want disclosed is that
> there are 15 high capacity pumps constantly running to take water from
> the lake to create flow for the generation of electricity (which
> creates revenues). The authorities deny that the 300 foot long pumping
> station even exists. There is no naturally occurring outflow from the
> lake. The last year that there was outflow was 1978 when the lake
> level was at a high level.
>
> Another major hurdle is to change the "Aztec" thinking about corn being
> the most important crop. Switching to alternative crops, such as
> tomatoes, would provide many multiples of crop values and revenues,
> using less than 10% of the irrigation water now being misused.
>
> Todd claims that given the authority to change the way in which the
> water is managed, he could fill the lake to capacity in two weeks!
>
> In all, not a positive presentation.
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Re: State of the Lake
by Jim W Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:32 pm
Thank You. Good read, assuming all is true.....lakeside is screwed, for the time being.
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Re: State of the Lake
by merry Wed May 01, 2013 9:06 am
> The federal government authority that controls water
> concession has granted 50 to 70% more concessions than there is water
> flow capacity in the Lerma River that feeds the lake. And that
> authority collects money for those concessions.
It's easy to bandy about solutions if we view the lake in a vacuum. The sky is falling, and it looks as if nobody is doing a thing about it! But having spent much of my adult life living where water is scarce, I understand that the subject of existing water rights is extremely complex. I am sure these rights are constantly being challenged and litigated here, and that the situation is not as static as it seems. It's like duplicate land grants, but they affect so many more people.
I don't doubt Dr. Strong's statistics at all, I consider him a very credible source, but they too are being presented in a vacuum. For example, what is the "normal" leakage of a water system? I believe around the 20% range is considered normal average system leakage. So yes, it's higher for Guad, but we're talking about a range here, nothing is average. All water systems have leakage. I think it's important to keep things in perspective, and giving benchmarks can help give clarity and perspective to a difficult and complex topic.
Merry
> concession has granted 50 to 70% more concessions than there is water
> flow capacity in the Lerma River that feeds the lake. And that
> authority collects money for those concessions.
It's easy to bandy about solutions if we view the lake in a vacuum. The sky is falling, and it looks as if nobody is doing a thing about it! But having spent much of my adult life living where water is scarce, I understand that the subject of existing water rights is extremely complex. I am sure these rights are constantly being challenged and litigated here, and that the situation is not as static as it seems. It's like duplicate land grants, but they affect so many more people.
I don't doubt Dr. Strong's statistics at all, I consider him a very credible source, but they too are being presented in a vacuum. For example, what is the "normal" leakage of a water system? I believe around the 20% range is considered normal average system leakage. So yes, it's higher for Guad, but we're talking about a range here, nothing is average. All water systems have leakage. I think it's important to keep things in perspective, and giving benchmarks can help give clarity and perspective to a difficult and complex topic.
Merry
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Re: State of the Lake
by Chapala Payaso Wed May 01, 2013 9:18 am
The decision makers are all formed up in a circular firing squad. Bu nobody pulls the trigger.
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Re: State of the Lake
by Mad_Max Wed May 01, 2013 11:22 am
It is Stong - not Strong -merry wrote:> The federal government authority that controls water
> concession has granted 50 to 70% more concessions than there is water
> flow capacity in the Lerma River that feeds the lake. And that
> authority collects money for those concessions.
It's easy to bandy about solutions if we view the lake in a vacuum. The sky is falling, and it looks as if nobody is doing a thing about it! But having spent much of my adult life living where water is scarce, I understand that the subject of existing water rights is extremely complex. I am sure these rights are constantly being challenged and litigated here, and that the situation is not as static as it seems. It's like duplicate land grants, but they affect so many more people.
I don't doubt Dr. Strong's statistics at all, I consider him a very credible source, but they too are being presented in a vacuum. For example, what is the "normal" leakage of a water system? I believe around the 20% range is considered normal average system leakage. So yes, it's higher for Guad, but we're talking about a range here, nothing is average. All water systems have leakage. I think it's important to keep things in perspective, and giving benchmarks can help give clarity and perspective to a difficult and complex topic.
Merry
A few years back I asked him for some sources on his statistics - he didn't feel it was important to provide them
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Re: State of the Lake
by arbon Wed May 01, 2013 11:45 am
This op should be in
"Local Rumors and Criminal Activity"
"Local Rumors and Criminal Activity"
A dirty secret that the government(s) do not want disclosed is that
there are 15 high capacity pumps constantly running to take water from
the lake to create flow for the generation of electricity (which
creates revenues).
The authorities deny that the 300 foot long pumping
station even exists.
There is no naturally occurring outflow from the
lake.
The last year that there was outflow was 1978 when the lake level was at a high level.
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Re: State of the Lake
by arbon Wed May 01, 2013 11:48 am
It is a myth that lack of rainfall is the problem.
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Re: State of the Lake
by Pedro Wed May 01, 2013 12:43 pm
next those charlatans from the 90's and early 2000's, the buddies del lago will jump in with more bull shit.
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Re: State of the Lake
by Smartalex Wed May 01, 2013 1:04 pm
The level of Lake Chapala is determined by the amount of outflow allowed from dams and reservoirs along the Rio Lerma and its tributaries. There is an agreement among the five Mexican states through which the river flows to manage those outflows and maintain water flow downstream. I believe the federal agency that oversees this agreement has held more water in reserve due to the severe drought in the north of Mexico.
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Re: State of the Lake
by merry Wed May 01, 2013 2:01 pm
Mr. Smartypants,
I think that would be called inflow when we're talking about Lake Chapala. Tod has said there is no outflow.
Merry
I think that would be called inflow when we're talking about Lake Chapala. Tod has said there is no outflow.
Merry
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Re: State of the Lake
by Smartalex Wed May 01, 2013 2:43 pm
Merry,
The Rio Lerma feeds Lake Chapala. There are dams and reservoirs along the Lerma. When water is released from behind those dams and reservoirs, that is called outflow from the reservoirs and inflow into the river and, eventually, Lake Chapala..
When Lake Chapala fills, it's outflow is the origin of the Rio Santiago. Dr. Stong is referring to the fact that there has been no outflow from Lake Chapala since 1979.
The Rio Lerma feeds Lake Chapala. There are dams and reservoirs along the Lerma. When water is released from behind those dams and reservoirs, that is called outflow from the reservoirs and inflow into the river and, eventually, Lake Chapala..
When Lake Chapala fills, it's outflow is the origin of the Rio Santiago. Dr. Stong is referring to the fact that there has been no outflow from Lake Chapala since 1979.
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Re: State of the Lake
by merry Wed May 01, 2013 2:58 pm
Mr. Smartypants,
This is like import vs export, it depends on where you are. But nevermind, as now I am sure we all realize you live on the Lerma River.
Merry
This is like import vs export, it depends on where you are. But nevermind, as now I am sure we all realize you live on the Lerma River.
Merry
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Re: State of the Lake
by viajero Wed May 01, 2013 3:11 pm
Merry,it's just a discussion about the lake,there's no need for name calling,lets try to keep it out of the Octagon.merry wrote:Mr. Smartypants,
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Re: State of the Lake
by merry Wed May 01, 2013 3:33 pm
It was an affectionate play on his name "SmartAlex" but I guess I could just call him "Sir."
Merry
Merry
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Re: State of the Lake
by Jim W Wed May 01, 2013 3:40 pm
viajero wrote:Merry,it's just a discussion about the lake,there's no need for name calling,lets try to keep it out of the Octagon.merry wrote:Mr. Smartypants,
OMG Chris did you find Jesus? TFF
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Re: State of the Lake
by merry Wed May 01, 2013 3:46 pm
[continuing the transgression from the topic] Viajero, quick! Someone called Coffeeguy, "CafeCHICO" in another thread. You'd better jump on them too! They didn't even say MISTER CafeChico! :-D
M.
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Re: State of the Lake
by Chapala Payaso Sat May 04, 2013 10:48 am
Isn't smarty pants what is worn so a dumb ass can almost sound normal?
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