they got caught

I thought it was The Brokers who were charged a few years back.... why would they charge The Realtors?
Wouldn't advertising and administration fall under The Agency's responsibilities?
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Dawg must be gett'n to old to play in the sandbox...  

Hocks, Yer spot on.  I wonder how many "licensed" real tors    there are at Lakeside?  There is a large number of Reps., that can't write or present an offer without their Broker present.

I listed my home with Justus @ All in One several years ago, but, got frustrated when the many brokers refused to show homes listed with Justus. Unfortunately, the wheels of Justice turn slowly in Mexico, and some of us won't be around for the final act.

"Dawg must be gett'n to old to play in the sandbox"

dawg and Brigitte use different keyboards..Eh

As I recall when this all first started Justus was working for one of the agencies.

I don't recall what the issue was but Justus was being given a bad time I think having to do with a commission.  When he objected and went to GIL he was given a hearing but not an honest one.  He was fined and I don't remember what else. The deck was stacked against him.  I do recall the entire thing was outrageous and Justus was a victim of the inner sanctum
Justus left and went out on his own.  He started All in One and of course was ostracized and given a bad time by the members of GIL.
At that point he filed suit against the members of Gil.  He has won every appeal and this was the final one.
My facts may be a little fuzzy as I am getting old but in general it is what happened.

Justice for Justus?

slainte39 wrote:

Osoprehistorico wrote:Or Century 21 who I really had problems with and won a law suit against them.

They are, you just have to know their corporate name rather than their DBA.

Right, Slainte39. The translated version (1st post on this thread) is sorta funny, Like Good Weather Realty is Buen Clima, dba Absolut Fenix. Can get confusing!

shana wrote:As I recall when this all first started Justus was working for one of the agencies.

I don't recall what the issue was but Justus was being given a bad time I think having to do with a commission.  When he objected and went to GIL he was given a hearing but not an honest one.  He was fined and I don't remember what else. The deck was stacked against him.  I do recall the entire thing was outrageous and Justus was a victim of the inner sanctum
Justus left and went out on his own.  He started All in One and of course was ostracized and given a bad time by the members of GIL.
At that point he filed suit against the members of Gil.  He has won every appeal and this was the final one.
My facts may be a little fuzzy as I am getting old but in general it is what happened.

That is how I remember it also, Shana. At first I wasn't sure but Justus posted scans of documents related to what happened and urged transparency of the issue. After reading it all, I concluded that IMHO. Justus was railroaded.

Mainecoons wrote:

Mrs. Rupert wrote:This was also a topic on TOB, but when I went there to follow up, it had been removed- today!  It was only posted this morning.  I would assume that posting what info is available on TOB, it is removed when
the news is not to the host's liking.  I hope this posting is not removed from this site.

You're right.  I locked it because several posters spelled out in detail just what the realtors got fined for, namely price fixing of commissions.  So the topic was covered and it did hit pretty close to home.

I guess the board's sponsor, Chapala Realty, who is also one of those that got fined, removed the thread.

Not much to add to the story.  They got nailed for requiring 8 percent commissions, plus VAT, without negotiation, or the home sale would not be listed in MLS.  

What is interesting is that the same thing happened to the broker we worked with in Washington D.C. along with a bunch more for doing exactly the same kind of price fixing.

I normally agree with your posts Mainecoons, but not this time. The charges were merely clarified on TOB before it was locked and then removed. The oh-so-quick locking and subsequent removal of the thread deprived readers of the right of discussion, effectively eliminating expected (and justified) comments and questions regarding ramifications of this ruling.

I do understand the conflict of interest with TOB being run by a real estate office. To lock and remove is their decision and I respect that. But they must realize these moves are nevertheless are detrimental to their reputation, which is increasingly one of bias and censorship. For me, this bias does not inspire confidence. I am so glad THIS forum has stuck to their minimal censorship policy.

Osoprehistorico wrote:

slainte39 wrote:

Osoprehistorico wrote:Or Century 21 who I really had problems with and won a law suit against them.

They are, you just have to know their corporate name rather than their DBA.

Their business name is Chula Vista Real Estate.  Didn't see that either.  Makes no difference.  Just curious.

I believe their corporate name is now...Chapala Trust.

MC....I  believe their fixed rate was 7% + IVA for residential structures and 10% + IVA for commercial structures and lots (terrenos).

Just doesn't seem fair to me that the seller has to pay the IVA on their commission.

Osoprehistorico wrote:Just doesn't seem fair to me that the seller has to pay the IVA on their commission.  

The customer always pays the IVA, when applicable, one way or the other, no matter if it's Century 21, Walmart, Ajijic Tango,
Telmex, CFE, Coldwell Banker, Oxxo, or you name it.  That's the way a sales or value added tax works.
The real estate people have to pay the ISR, or income tax on what they earn, after deductions.
It might not be fair..... whatever that is.... but I think it's the same in the US and Canada.
Try telling an automobile dealership that the IVA isn't fair.....you might get sympathy.  

Hopefully, the day will never come when then buyer has to pay IVA on the purchase price of the property. That would be a real "OUCH".
.....hard enough to keep ISR taxes off of the seller.

slainte39 wrote:

Osoprehistorico wrote:Just doesn't seem fair to me that the seller has to pay the IVA on their commission.  

The customer always pays the IVA, when applicable, one way or the other, no matter if it's Century 21, Walmart, Ajijic Tango,
Telmex, CFE, Coldwell Banker, Oxxo, or you name it.  That's the way a sales or value added tax works.
The real estate people have to pay the ISR, or income tax on what they earn, after deductions.
It might not be fair..... whatever that is.... but I think it's the same in the US and Canada.
Try telling an automobile dealership that the IVA isn't fair.....you might get sympathy.  

Hopefully, the day will never come when then buyer has to pay IVA on the purchase price of the property. That would be a real "OUCH".
.....hard enough to keep ISR taxes off of the seller.

Some areas of US have real estate tax. When you sell a house you pay 2%( or something like that) of the GROSS sales price to the government for example for my county in Washington State. On the other hand no state income tax in Washington State.  You lose you win.

Z

Texmexco wrote:

Mainecoons wrote:

Mrs. Rupert wrote:This was also a topic on TOB, but when I went there to follow up, it had been removed- today!  It was only posted this morning.  I would assume that posting what info is available on TOB, it is removed when
the news is not to the host's liking.  I hope this posting is not removed from this site.

You're right.  I locked it because several posters spelled out in detail just what the realtors got fined for, namely price fixing of commissions.  So the topic was covered and it did hit pretty close to home.

I guess the board's sponsor, Chapala Realty, who is also one of those that got fined, removed the thread.

Not much to add to the story.  They got nailed for requiring 8 percent commissions, plus VAT, without negotiation, or the home sale would not be listed in MLS.  

What is interesting is that the same thing happened to the broker we worked with in Washington D.C. along with a bunch more for doing exactly the same kind of price fixing.

I normally agree with your posts Mainecoons, but not this time. The charges were merely clarified on TOB before it was locked and then removed. The oh-so-quick locking and subsequent removal of the thread deprived readers of the right of discussion, effectively eliminating  expected (and justified) comments and questions regarding ramifications of this ruling.

I do understand the conflict of interest with TOB being run by a real estate office. To lock and remove is their decision and I respect that. But they must realize these moves are nevertheless are detrimental to their reputation, which is increasingly one of bias and censorship. For me, this bias does not inspire confidence. I am so glad THIS forum has stuck to their minimal censorship policy.

Bear in mind I didn't remove it. I actually locked it so that the information therein might remain up because I knew it was going to generate a lot of commentary and, after all, that board's sponsor is one of the big dogs in terms of the cost of the fines. That turned out to be wistful thinking. However, it is being well discussed here.

As I noted, we had a very similar case involving almost all of the major brokers in Washington D.C. at the time we were working as agents. It was 7 percent or no go and they paid very dearly for the price fixing.

Looking at the size of the fines relative to the sizes of the firms here, I would say they are pretty dear as well.

I'd be more impressed with this action if I didn't know that in Mexico, only the small fish get caught price fixing.

I saw that SAT, the tax agency was in Chapala/Ajijic today serving notices of the fines on real estate agents and companies.

Intercasa wrote:I saw that SAT, the tax agency was in Chapala/Ajijic today serving notices of the fines on real estate agents and companies.  

given the amount of the 'fine' for some of the agencies, is it likely (as a good guess) that we will have far fewer real estate companies?

Just because the fines may actually stick doesn't mean SAT will be able to collect...

If it works like it should  ........ there certainly must be a way to garnish any funds owed to the courts from bank accounts owned by the entities that owe. No?

Personally, I look forward to a "New Mentality" in the RE profession around here.  Too many have been sitting on their duffs, utilizing no marketing skills and simply waiting for a buyer to wander by .......... while sellers w/no other options sit hoping that the particular agent they chose has a little more resourcefulness and get-up-n-go than the rest, gets the job done.

Osoprehistorico wrote:Just doesn't seem fair to me that the seller has to pay the IVA on their commission.  

I am with you OSO, started a similar thread a couple years ago. Total BS! Contrary to Zed's post I sold a 300k home in Lincoln Washington, I paid nearly ZIP in closing costs other that Real Estate commission. BTW 6%. The sellers on my home in Casa Grande paid a few hundred $, other than Real estate commission.

Lake Chapala buyers in a very high % pay cash for our homes. The Realtor s do squat, as unlike NOB, they don't have to work their butts off getting buyers qualified for financing. Yet they get 7% for NADA, Plus we pay 16% IVA on their commission, driving the sellers rate to 8% +/_.

Unfortunately many of us are selling at a loss, while the price fixing realtors are getting fat at our expense. Since we are stuck with the law......we can give Justus kudos for fighting for his principal belief regarding fair competition.

Vandre wrote:If it works like it should  ........ there certainly must be a way to garnish any funds owed to the courts from bank accounts owned by the entities that owe. No?

Personally, I look forward to a "New Mentality" in the RE profession around here.  Too many have been sitting on their duffs, utilizing no marketing skills and simply waiting for a buyer to wander by .......... while sellers w/no other options sit hoping that the particular agent they chose has a little more resourcefulness and get-up-n-go than the rest, gets the job done.

Yes, this is the way it is.  So I put a $2,000 USD bonus to the realtor who got it sold.  Took 2 weeks.

Jim W wrote:

Osoprehistorico wrote:Just doesn't seem fair to me that the seller has to pay the IVA on their commission.  

I am with you OSO, started a similar thread a couple years ago.   Total BS!   Contrary to Zed's post I sold a 300k home in Lincoln Washington, I paid nearly ZIP in closing costs other that Real Estate commission.  BTW 6%.   .

You did not live in King County so you don't pay Real estate Excise Tax. Reread my post I never said all.

Z

Realtors here are not held accountable for anything so IMO their commission is way too much. Also advertising here is less than it is in the US .

Also, at least the realtor I used (and I doubt I'm the only one) said, "oh, I'll do that and get this done" relative to name changes for the water, electric, taxes, etc. For the year it took me to get down here, nothing had been done. The realtor had already gotten her commission, so she did not care about following up on anything. She just moved on to the next client ..... And, I find it interesting that she is from the agency with the biggest 'fine.'

I was very impressed with my realtor when we bought our place. He took care of absolutley everything in regards to CFE, Telmex, water and taxes. He even called us several times after the fact to see if there was anything else we needed.

It's my impression that most home sales in Guadalajara are FSBO,the important thing is to have a good notario.

Wether the realtor are bad or great is irrelevant the fact is that legally there are not responsible for anything, there is no accountability here so why should they get those kind of fees.
Fees in Mexico ae negociable but not here.
You can get a facilitator to change your bills for a lot less money that what the realtor cost you.