what living here is like

this isn't a pro or con, but is one of my favorite observations on what living in an area of mexico with a fairly large ex-pat community can be like. a friend of a friend once observed that living at lake chapala is something like this: you wake up in the morning and speak to your spouse in english. you go into the living room and speak to your pets in english. then you turn on your satellite TV and watch the news in english. after having a breakfast made with foods bought at superlake, you fire up your computer and check the local webboards to see what the other ex-pats have to say, in english, of course. you go outside where your american-made car is parked and open the front gate and BAM, MEXICO!

I can picture that. So, I guess if one lives in a mainly gringo neighborhood he/she would go speak to the neighbors in English, perhaps go down to the local corner pub (or malt shop) and hang out with buddies and speak English, perhaps go to dinner and order something in Spanish, and then go home and curl up and watch some tv in English. Wow, not going to learn Spanish to quickly that way.

That's not far from our reality although we don't watch ANY TV news. We have several Mexican friends and try our best to speak Spanish to them while they do their best to speak English to us! We belong to a country club in Guadlajara where very few employees speak English and play in a couples tournament series that has both gringo and Mexican couples. So we have those opportunities to speak Spanish. Our maid doesn't speak English and that motivated my wife to learn some Spanish. Our gardener speaks very good English and is frequently our Spanish coach. Here at Lakeside it's easy to get along with little or no Spanish but Guadalajara and places we like to visit such as Morelia, Guanajuato, Lagos de Moreno, and Leon are a different story. The more Spanish you speak the easier it is to get along. Many folks just don't bother, nor to they bother to learn their way around Guadalajara which is a fabulous city with so much to offer; great cultural sites, great shopping, and many fine restaurants.

Pro ~ The lack of government intervention in your daily life.
Con ~ The lack of government intervention in your daily life.

NoB tries to legislate stupidity. Here they use the darwinian approach! For example, there's no need to set up barricades around castillos. If you get too close you'll get burned!

Lunateak is correct. However, what goes along with it is a lack of a professionally trained police force and judicial system. This results in randomness and fraud, e.g. a Vialidad cop will threaten to confiscate your car, legally he can't. Or he'll give you some greif about the expiration date on your car sticker (Impotada temporal) which doesn't expire until your visa does. So you have a lot "more room to move" in Mexico but it's more difficult to know the boundaries.

what io meant to infer in my original post was that although in your own home here around lake chapala it can SEEM like you've never left home, when you get out on the streets, you are definitely in mexico. that's just something you need to remember. as pedro would perhaps say "this ain't canada or the US, brother!" (although he would say it in way more colorful language!)

This is a good thread. Too true. I guess that if I had a pet, I'd probably speak to it in English. Probably depends on the neighborhood you live in, as someone mentioned. In my neighborhood, the problem is that if you try using your Spanish, there are two possible results: the other person responds in rapid fire Spanish or, noticing from your accent that your ain't Mexican, responds in their usually adequate English. I have a chance with my "rent-a-maids" when they come, sans English. If you do feel the need for a little Spanish practice, try getting some help at Walmart finding something. I had an hilarious experience recently trying to explain what automatic dishwasher soap was when the shelf was empty. Gestures help, but not always.

How many people down there actually make Mexican friends? It seems some do and some don't, but can't get a feel for it. Seems like it would be something that you'd want to do. Thoughts and comments?

I have a few Mexican friends that I met during my visits down to the lake.
In fact one of them is going to come up and visit us here in Vancouver this summer. We are going to help him with the airfare.

Bob

juanrey, i can only speak from my own experience. do i have mexican friends? yeah, a few (but they speak english much better than i speak spanish). do i have american/canadian friends? yeah, a few. but, honestly, i think the small number of friends that i have speaks more to my nature than anything else.

speaking spanish is mind-wearying sometimes. and understanding it is even more difficult. as gringal said, it's so often rapid fire (or sounds like it is because you don't understand the language very well).

but i am absolutely convinced that the better you can speak the language, the better off you will be. it just embarrasses me that after two years here, my spanish is not better. and it embarrasses me that people NOB laugh about immigrants who can't speak english....which is SO much harder.

juanrey wrote:How many people down there actually make Mexican friends? It seems some do and some don't, but can't get a feel for it. Seems like it would be something that you'd want to do. Thoughts and comments?

How do people usually make friends? As kids, we make them in school. As adults, we tend to make friends at work or among other business associates or group members. Full time mom/homemakers get to know other mothers. Later in life, especially if we move to a foreign country, it's not as easy. People don't have those easy associations with those they work with that can develop into real friendships. Those who are native already have their circle of friends and family. Foreigners tend to join groups of other foreigners. When someone says that they are "friends" with their employees...maids or gardeners.....I think they're kidding themselves a bit, but that's just my opinion. I would like to hear how others began their friendships with Mexicans.

joining a moto club and because of that meeting people from moto clubs all over the country. working with the previous gummint and now this one. mexicans play volleyball with us. some speak english,some don't.
hanging out with the guys on my street.

pedro wrote:joining a moto club and because of that meeting people from moto clubs all over the country. working with the previous gummint and now this one. mexicans play volleyball with us. some speak english,some don't.
hanging out with the guys on my street.

OUCH.

Living at Lakeside (especially Ajijjic) reminds me of growing up in south-central Los Angeles. Initially it was predominately black, but eventually it became almost exclusively Latino. The older immigrants rarely learned English because they didn't need to. No matter where they went, or what they did there were people with whom they could speak Spanish. Luckily for me, Spanish was my first language and I improve it by studying it in high school and college, and reading books in Spanish. Now I speak it everyday here and even have a Mexican girlfriend, so my already fluent Spanish is getting better and better each day. I'm now considering moving to Joco to be among more locals and a younger crowd. The reality of it is if you don't immerse yourself and practice it often, you'll never learn, much less master, a foreign language. BTW, I can't tell you how much reading books in Spanish helps you learn and refine the language. Start off with kids' books if you have to. Good luck.

It's also more difficult to learn a language the older you are. I plan on taking lots of Spanish lessons but I'm sure it won't be as easy as if I were a child. Heck, I can't remember what I went into the next room for occasionally.

You're right Carry, we can't pick up languages as easy as we did as kids. When my two kids were very young, they were learning English from my wife and I, and school; Spanish from my family and I; and Armenian from my wife and her family. I became concerned that they would suffer from language overload and get confused. I consulted their pediatrician who told me that there's a window in time when young children can absorb any number of languages without a problem. Big change from when we were punished by the nuns in elementary school for speaking Spanish -- IDIOTS!!!

We have several Mexican friends; one couple lives in the next block, one in Guadalajara, a family in Ixtlahuacan and another in Ajijc. We value their friendship highly. Most of our gringo friends do not have Mexican friends. We're golfers and belong to Atlas Country Club in Guadalajara so we've met many Mexicans there and have casual (golf) friendships with them.

juanrey wrote:I can picture that. So, I guess if one lives in a mainly gringo neighborhood he/she would go speak to the neighbors in English, perhaps go down to the local corner pub (or malt shop) and hang out with buddies and speak English, perhaps go to dinner and order something in Spanish, and then go home and curl up and watch some tv in English. Wow, not going to learn Spanish to quickly that way.

juarney,

Your other posts indicate that you are a sincere guy and just trying to gather information. If learning Spanish is important to you, and it should be to all of us foreigners, but at our age it is tough and we give up fast, my suggestion is that you stay away from anything between Chapala and Ajijic, Gringo land. You will sign up for classes, you will pay big bucks, you will have a hard time finding folks that are trying to learn, as most of us that have tried have given up and speak restaurant Spanish.

Immersion Spanis is your best bet. Where you are forced to learn it by dealing with Mexicans on a regular and daily basis. Your best bet on the north shore is Jocotopec or any community on the South side of the lake. You will also save about 50% or more off of Ajijic rent and food prices

I have friends determined to learn Spanish and that is what they did. They first lived in San Nicholas, a few miles past Chapala and rented a home. Then bought a home in San Pedro a few miles from Joco. In both instances, they were the only foreigners in each community and were received with open arms by the locals who lived in those communities. They have learned a great deal of Spanish in their two years here and are loved by their neighbors, given gifts at holiday and invited for fiestas and of course, my friends reciprocate to them. It is a love fest and my friends have never, ever felt safer and more secure than being surrounded by their loving and caring Mexican neighbors. If you do not learn Spanish, you miss out on more than 50% of life in your new country. My thoughts and trying to help. Zoey

Demonio wrote:You're right Carry, we can't pick up languages as easy as we did as kids. When my two kids were very young, they were learning English from my wife and I, and school; Spanish from my family and I; and Armenian from my wife and her family. I became concerned that they would suffer from language overload and get confused. I consulted their pediatrician who told me that there's a window in time when young children can absorb any number of languages without a problem. Big change from when we were punished by the nuns in elementary school for speaking Spanish -- IDIOTS!!!

You went to a catholic school? Thanks for sharing. That explains a lot. Zoey

is there more than 2 nutbars living in san pedro now?
the 2 i know of don't live there full time. one of them still lives in texas most of the time. her name is stephanie-is that yer friend zoey or has san pedro become ajijic south?

Zoey wrote:
You went to a catholic school? Thanks for sharing. That explains a lot. Zoey

I'm not sure how to take that comment, Zoey.

No harm intended. Just trying to be funny and it fell flat on its face. Sorry. Zoey

It's all good. Thanks for replying.

G

juanrey wrote:How many people down there actually make Mexican friends? It seems some do and some don't, but can't get a feel for it. Seems like it would be something that you'd want to do. Thoughts and comments?

Being kind and considerate and realizing you are in their country and honoring that usually worked for us.

Zoey wrote:No harm intended. Just trying to be funny and it fell flat on its face. Sorry. Zoey

It's ok Zoey, not everyone understands Christian humor.