Trouble at the border

I'm sure by now everyone has read about this horrible incident at the border.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/americans-kidnapped-mexico-matamoros-border-what-we-know/

This response would not be good for any of us, particularly the Americans living in Mexico.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/lindsey-graham-mexico-drug-cartel-b2295915.html

https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/03/lindsey-graham-wants-to-use-military-against-mexican-drug-cartels/

These African Americans were mistakenly identified as Haitians by members of the Gulf Cartel.

There are Haitian drug smugglers in that area that are impinging on the cartel's drug business.

It's a very sad case of mistaken identity that resulted in death.

The GOP will use this tragedy as a means to resurrect trump's wall and military threats of action on Mexican soil.

Maybe it is time for Mexico to let the US DEA and intelligent services back in. The US can then let Mexican agents operate on US soil to stem the flow of illegal guns since they obviously can't stop it.

If it was truly a case of mistaken identity, I suggest taking a look at the skin color of the four from South Carolina. Hispanics, Latinos, Mexicans are extremely cognizant of skin color and color matters. Easy to see how profiling could have taken place. We just spent 9 days traveling with a Hispanic from New Mexico and we're shocked by how much skin color played into her thinking. She kept saying she was a black or dark Hispanic and we didn't see that at all!

As for these four "victims" from South Carolina - I have to wonder just how much research they did and just what their sources might have been? SOCIAL MEDIA? Since we do so much driving around Mexico - we have been forced to review FB travel groups for some semblance of info. Amazing how much false, inaccurate and irresponsible info people feed!:The crime climate in Tamalpais  has been off the charts for a long time on you couldn't pay us enough to ignore it and travel through that particular State! But we will likely never know the exact circumstances?

Rory2u wrote:If it was truly a case of mistaken identity, I suggest taking a look at the skin color of the four from South Carolina. Hispanics, Latinos, Mexicans are extremely cognizant of skin color and color matters. Easy to see how profiling could have taken place. We just spent 9 days traveling with a Hispanic from New Mexico and we're shocked by how much skin color played into her thinking. She kept saying she was a black or dark Hispanic and we didn't see that at all!

As for these four "victims" from South Carolina - I have to wonder just how much research they did and just what their sources might have been? SOCIAL MEDIA? Since we do so much driving around Mexico - we have been forced to review FB travel groups for some semblance of info. Amazing how much false, inaccurate and irresponsible info people feed!:The crime climate in Tamalpais  has been off the charts for a long time on you couldn't pay us enough to ignore it and travel through that particular State! But we will likely never know the exact circumstances?

What FB travel groups do you monitor? Thanks.

Rory2u wrote:If it was truly a case of mistaken identity, I suggest taking a look at the skin color of the four from South Carolina. Hispanics, Latinos, Mexicans are extremely cognizant of skin color and color matters. Easy to see how profiling could have taken place. We just spent 9 days traveling with a Hispanic from New Mexico and we're shocked by how much skin color played into her thinking. She kept saying she was a black or dark Hispanic and we didn't see that at all!

As for these four "victims" from South Carolina - I have to wonder just how much research they did and just what their sources might have been? SOCIAL MEDIA? Since we do so much driving around Mexico - we have been forced to review FB travel groups for some semblance of info. Amazing how much false, inaccurate and irresponsible info people feed!:The crime climate in Tamalpais  has been off the charts for a long time on you couldn't pay us enough to ignore it and travel through that particular State! But we will likely never know the exact circumstances?

Why the quotes around the word, "victims?"  Do you think they brought this on themselves?  Victim shame, much??

Fyi, the woman who the 3 men accompanied, had been to that same doctor in Matamoras previously with no problem.  Her doctor's office was literally within a few minutes of the border crossing at Brownsville.  They did not as you implied, travel through the state of Tamaulipas.  

To me it was obvious that the cartel had members at the border on the lookout for Haitians coming into MX with orders to kidnap or kill.  There is an ongoing turf dispute between the Gulf Cartel and Haitians who are running drugs back and forth at Brownsville.  Not sure that specific racial aspect was given much media attention prior to this incident.

There may be more to this story than is being told. Turns out all 4 were convicted drug users and some had been convicted of being drug trafficers.

rafterbr wrote:There may be more to this story than is being told.  Turns out all 4 were convicted drug users and some had been convicted of being drug trafficers.

A link to this info would be useful.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/06/americans-kidnapped-mexico-matamoros/

The Americans came under fire shortly after they crossed the border Friday into the city of Matamoros, across from Brownsville, Tex., the FBI said in a statement Sunday. The Americans were traveling in a white minivan with North Carolina plates.

“All four Americans were placed in a vehicle and taken from the scene by armed men,” the bureau said.

Officials do not believe the victims were targeted before the encounter. There was no evidence they were linked to organized crime in Mexico, U.S. officials said; none of the four have criminal records.

rafterbr wrote:There may be more to this story than is being told.  Turns out all 4 were convicted drug users and some had been convicted of being drug trafficers.

After 30 minutes of googling, the only report of this is at The Daily Mail from the UK. Here is how the Daily Mail rates in reliability and false news.

https://www.thefactual.com/blog/is-the-daily-mail-reliable/

The Daily Mail is the UK’s biggest newspaper by circulation and an internationally popular online tabloid and source of information. However, many criticize the paper as inaccurate and guilty of spreading disinformation, with an often right-leaning bias. The site has also come under fire for a variety of controversies, including accusations of homophobia, racism, and sexism. So, just how reliable is the Daily Mail?

How Does The Factual Rate News Sources?
The Factual analyzes more than 10,000 news stories every day to help readers find the most informative, least-biased articles. Our news-rating algorithm scores each article along four metrics: (1) cited sources and quotes, (2) publication history, (3) writing tone, and (4) author expertise. These scores combine in a weighted average we call a Factual Grade, which ranges from 0–100%. (See our How It Works page to learn more about our algorithm.)

For this study, we analyzed ~1,000 articles each from 240 news sources. The average Factual Grade for the entire dataset was 62.5%. Based on these averages, we can compare the performance of news sites across the media ecosystem. The entire dataset can be explored in greater detail here.

How Factual Is the Daily Mail?
The Daily Mail scored an average Factual Grade of 39.5%, the second-lowest score in our entire dataset. A range of factors contribute to this low score. In terms of cited evidence and sourcing, articles from the Daily Mail tend to link to other Daily Mail content or to low-quality external sources. Headlines and text are also generally opinionated or sensationalized. Finally, author expertise is low, likely attributable to the wide range of new and unrecognized authors, who fail to demonstrate relevant topical expertise.

Like other sites, scores for articles from Daily Mail varied widely based on factors like author expertise and cited evidence. For example, some scored above 60%, while others scored below 40%.
How Opinionated Is the Daily Mail?
One of the metrics The Factual uses is the Writing Tone, which measures how opinionated the writing is in an article. For this metric, the algorithm looks for signs of subjective commentary (e.g., first person pronouns and unnecessary adverbs), as well as the emotional nature of selected words, and sees how prevalent they are for a given length of text. More neutral text receives higher ratings, with “0” being the most opinionated and “1” being the most neutral.

The Daily Mail had an average Writing Tone score of 0.34, placing it in the 15th percentile in our dataset for this metric. This suggests that articles from the Daily Mail are often highly opinionated. This can be seen in article titles such as “David Beckham faces backlash for gushing about Qatar in slick promo” and “Britney claims her conservatorship was SET UP.”

What Is the Daily Mail’s Political Bias?
The Factual classifies news sites by political bias, as either Left, Moderate Left, Center, Moderate Right, or Right. This classification pulls from third-party assessments from media bias organizations such as AllSides and Media Bias/Fact Check. Based on this data, The Factual assigns Daily Mail a “Right” bias.

AllSides, a company that tracks the bias of media organizations based on community feedback and independent research, rates Daily Mail as having a “Right” bias. For example, in a survey of 19,190 users across the political spectrum, AllSides found a slight majority of people agreed that the tabloid newspaper had a “Right” leaning bias. Those not in this majority gave Daily Mail an average rating between a “Lean Right” and “Right” bias rating. An August 2021 review by an AllSides editor found the site to be “sensationalist, tabloid bent, often choosing to highlight individual stories that elicit shock or heightened emotions.”

Meanwhile, Media Bias/Fact Check(MBFC), another media bias organization, brands Daily Mail as “Right Biased and Questionable.” MBFC claims the information utilized is poorly sourced and often hyperlinked to their own website. The site has failed numerous fact checks, generally linked to deliberate attempts to spread fake news, implying that the publication seeks to profit from hoaxes or disinformation. Some supplemental headlines MBFC provides, such as “Woman, 63, ‘becomes PREGNANT in the mouth’ with baby squid after eating calamari,” reveals the often sensationalist and emotionally loaded wording in a misleading headline. Other articles stand out as entirely unsubstantiated, such as “Did a White House Intern Make the ‘White Power’ Hand Gesture?”

I imagine the Gulf Cartel has bought themselves a world of grief. The low-level street soldiers who made this mistake are probably already dead....

CanuckBob wrote:I imagine the Gulf Cartel has bought themselves a world of grief. The low-level street soldiers who made this mistake are probably already dead....

The Cartel handed over 5 members that they said were responsible. Maybe they just handed over 5 members they wanted to get rid of for a variety of reasons. We'll never know.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/03/09/cartel-turns-over-5-men-apologizes-after-americans-kidnapped-killed/11435887002/

Of the 4 kidnapped Americans, Reuters reviewed their South Carolina records. Woodward had been convicted 5 times on drug related charges including manufacturing of narcotics with intent to distribute. Williams had been convicted of manufacture and distribution of cocaine. Brown was convicted twice for possession of drugs. I think there is a lot of doubt why they were actually in Mexico (for a belly tuck?)

If it was truly a case of mistaken identity, I suggest taking a look at the skin color of the four from South Carolina. Hispanics, Latinos, Mexicans are extremely cognizant of skin color and color matters. Easy to see how profiling could have taken place. We just spent 9 days traveling with a Hispanic from New Mexico and we're shocked by how much skin color played into her thinking. She kept saying she was a black or dark Hispanic and we didn't see that at all!

As for these four "victims" from South Carolina - I have to wonder just how much research they did and just what their sources might have been? SOCIAL MEDIA? Since we do so much driving around Mexico - we have been forced to review FB travel groups for some semblance of info. Amazing how much false, inaccurate and irresponsible info people feed!:The crime climate in Tamalpais  has been off the charts for a long time on you couldn't pay us enough to ignore it and travel through that particular State! But we will likely never know the exact circumstances?

rafterbr wrote:Of the 4 kidnapped Americans, Reuters reviewed their South Carolina records.  Woodward had been convicted 5 times on drug related charges including manufacturing of narcotics with intent to distribute.  Williams had been convicted of manufacture and distribution of cocaine.  Brown was convicted twice for possession of drugs.  I think there is a lot of doubt why they were actually in Mexico (for a belly tuck?)

Reuters says this about Woodard: A Reuters review of South Carolina state records found that Woodard was convicted five times between 2007 and 2016 of drug crimes. [b]Nearly all were minor offenses, but they included one of manufacturing banned narcotics with the intent to distribute.[/b] So, between 7 and 16 years ago some poor black kid in the South got charged with mostly petty offenses that are legal in 21 states and decriminalized in another 10 states.

Brown who is reported to be in his mid-20s was according to Reuters: Brown was convicted twice in 2015 for possessing small amounts of marijuana or concentrated cannabis, records show. So he was maybe 17 or 18?? Again for possessing pot.

Williams per Reuters: The records also showed that Williams was in 2017 convicted for the manufacture and distribution of cocaine, 6 years ago.

There is no evidence these folks went to MEX for anything other than a medical procedure. If other evidence comes to light, that may change the dynamics of the situation.

Maybe you never smoked pot or drank a beer underage in HS or college and you think it's the crime of the century and ala Reefer Madness, you think the rest of a young pot smoker's life is as a lifelong criminal. I don't. And I think if it's been between 6 and 16 years since someone had the unfortunate luck to get caught with pot or even coke, big whoop.

And it's obvious to anyone in America that black people, especially black young people are way more targeted by police for any sort of charges. Most of us experimented with drugs in our early years but few of us white folks got caught.

Bisbee: I thought I was making it perfectly clear that I was speculating and not going by any slanted news reports.

We have spent 20+ years driving over 100k miles through 26 Mexican States. I admit to being risk adverse, so am keen on research. I truly dislike FB but have been able to glean some accurate info from the individual State travel groups. Somewhat more reliable and timely are local Mexican resident and certain police department groups! For me tedious because I am Español challenged and must rely on translations. A month spent in Chiapas was a real challenge a year ago because of all the Indigenous takes on the situation and their interpretations. But an education, none the less. Once we leave a State, I turn off all participation for that locale and go on to the next adventure.

We feel somewhat comfortable and never cocky about dealing with surprises and minor incidents when traveling Mexico. Experiences and level heads have made it all enjoyable.

I do stand by my contention that anyone considering crossing Into and traveling Tamalpais needs their head examined!

Since I ***DO *** love to read the comments below Yahoo & Google articles, as it sometimes provides 'News before it was News" or in some cases, input that might be days from coming out.. here's some of the more poignant comments from a Yahoo article today.. very interesting perspectives!  

-"There is more to the story and if you saw the videos prior to them entering into Mexico you would know. Al of these victims had previously been convicted of drug charges, 1 had her 8 yr old hospitalized because she had ingested her meth another was selling drugs near schools."

-At least one of the “victims” was a crip gang member, Shaeed Woodard. It’s all over their facebook. You mean to tell me the cartel randomly took out a U.S. gang member?"

-"n the original story they admitted they were going to pick up prescription drugs that can be bought in that zone.   anyone that's crossed the line a brownsville, el paso or san ysidro knows what i am talking about."

-"Guess we stupid in America!!!! Friend drives to Mexico from South Carolina to get surgery,  a painful surgery at that. You rent a hotel across the border but one of you knowing you going to Mexico forgets your ID!!!  Then the Three males go with the female to make sure she gets Lipo but they’re returning 15 minutes later just dropping her off. Yup Americans are dumb if you think this wasn’t about da yayo"

-"According to the American plastic surgeon society the average tummy tuck is 6300.  Why they go to Mexico with 50k?"

and finally, on the cartel apology..

-"They were afraid that this incident would end up requiring the Mexican government to actually do something about them instead of just taking bribes from them!"

go on & find your favorite comments yourself ~ obviously, more to come

The DEA usually has its finger on the pulse of the drug trade both north and south of the border. Have they made a statement on this incident?

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/sorry-ill-disciplined-cartel-members-103158567.html

CanuckBob wrote:The DEA usually has its finger on the pulse of the drug trade both north and south of the border. Have they made a statement on this incident?

I don't think the DEA has commented. But Sen. Lindsey Graham said the U.S. should begin using military force to combat the cartels in Mexico. And Pres. Lopéz Obrador reacted strongly.

= = = = = = = = =

Mexican president slams US lawmakers for suggesting military action against cartels

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3892997-mexican-president-slams-us-lawmakers-for-suggesting-military-action-against-cartels/

Due to the past criminal behavior of the individuals involved, the Mexican Attorney General said he was investigating this as a possible drug deal gone wrong. One thing is for certain, everyone, the cartel, the Mexican government and the USA government want to sweep this under the carpet as soon as possible. it's funny there was only one person guarding the house and how fast they located the house.

Whether this group were actually innocent victims, it was simply a random kidnapping and murders, or a case of mistaken identity, no one seems sure of at this point, and we may never know.
But when I saw the photos of the victims, the first thing that jumped out at me was the woman with a face full of piercings and what looked like heavy tattooing on her chest, and I thought about how it isn't very smart to travel outside of your own territory and culture looking such that you would draw undue attention to yourself. That isn't victim-blaming, it's just an observation that most seasoned travelers understand. It's best to be as inconspicuous as possible until you are aware of what might bring you undue attention, even more so if you are already a visible minority.

On another note, even if they have prior criminal history, ( the child with amphetamine in her system is most disturbing to me, possession of marijuana not at all ), that doesn't mean that had anything to do with their reason for being in Mexico. That's like thinking that just because someone was responsible for a car accident 8 years ago, they must be at fault if they are involved in another accident.

As the CNN article below opines, the case is far from closed. I agree with mudgirl that the prior drug use/convictions could mean everything or nothing. No way to tell yet. Much more suspicious is the three hours after the group crossed the border and before they were kidnapped. Also, they crossed the border in time for their early morning appointment, but never showed up during those three hours! https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/10/us/matamoros-mexico-americans-kidnapped-friday/index.html