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Highest rate of kidney disease in the world

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Post by Trailrunner on Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:54 am

lol!

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Post by CHILLIN on Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:36 pm

My god, people on this board are lazy. Took 5 minutes to search.
70% of Guadalara's water, and 20% of CDMX comes from Lake Chapala
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chapala
Mexico is the highest user of bottled water in the world
https://mexiconewsdaily.com/mexicolife/jalisco-city-to-be-first-in-mexico-without-tinacos/
It is mind boggling to me that where you think all this water would come from?
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Post by Gamina on Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:37 pm

Chillin, you did the easy part. Maybe you should have dug a little deeper. The Huaracha and Duero Rivers dump into the Pasión River which enters Lake Chapala close to Tizapan and is dry most of the year. The Rio Zula enters the Santiago about at the mouth of the Santiago/Lake Chapala but does not enter the lake. My God, some people are lazy when they do research!
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Post by Trailrunner on Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:51 pm

Chillin. You said most bottle water is drawn from the lake. You are dancing all around the question I want you to prove. Which bottle water companies are you referring to? Simple question.
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Post by Gamina on Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:03 pm

Most water for Pepsi, Coke and bottled water is taken from municipal sources. In Chiapas there isn't enough water for the town of San Cristobal because the Coke plant takes too much water from the municipal system. Or so the research says. It's happening all over the world. As far as water being drawn directly from the lake, hogwash!
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Post by CHILLIN on Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:05 pm

So Guadalajara receives the majority of its water from dried up rivers, now it all makes sense.
All the major bottling companies are mentioned in second article. We use Kateya, Salvador, I don't know if they filter onsite. If so, it would be from Riberas well water. Bottled water and soda follows the largest population.

There are now two Chapala to Guadalajara pipelines.
https://www.water-technology.net/uncategorised/news101034-html/
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Post by Smartalex on Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:34 pm

I believe that Guadalajara draws 10 to 20 percent of its tap water from Lake Chapala, not 70 percent as stated earlier in this thread. Bottled water, much of which is marketed by the local Coke and Pepsi bottlers, is filtered well water. The water source for Agua Caliente is thermal water from deep below the lake. It is cooled and filtered to remove the bicarbonate.
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Post by Trailrunner on Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:36 pm

Hogwash indeed.

Apparently Chillin has never seen the potable pipas coming down the Libramiento or parked in front of or offloading water into the tanks at the water stores.

Paul would die laughing if he knew you were saying Katya was "drawing their water from the lake"! So would Chabo.
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Post by Trailrunner on Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:42 pm

Smartalex wrote:The water source for Agua Caliente is thermal water from deep below the lake. It is cooled and filtered to remove the bicarbonate.

This was what Poco a Poco told me when I went out there with them. I suspect the heavy metals don't get filtered out.
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Post by CHILLIN on Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:31 pm

Alex. What you believe and what I am reading are two different things. The issue is how much contamination and leakage there is in the heavily neglected old pipeline. It leaves the treatment plant as potable. This is the law.

So where are the potable pipas getting their water from? The Lake Chapala water treatment plant? Therefore the lake. I imagine each truckload would have paperwork stating the water was potable when it left the plant.
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Post by Smartalex on Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:29 pm

Trailrunner wrote:
Smartalex wrote:The water source for Agua Caliente is thermal water from deep below the lake. It is cooled and filtered to remove the bicarbonate.

This was what Poco a Poco told me when I went out there with them. I suspect the heavy metals don't get filtered out.

Although I don't claim to be an authority on water quality or management, I tend to believe heavy metals are also filtered out in order to meet the requirements of potable water. This water has been tested and retested over and over in the search to find a cause for the prevalence of kidney disease among the local population.
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Post by Gamina on Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:40 pm

CHILLIN wrote:So Guadalajara receives the majority of its water from dried up rivers, now it all makes sense.
All the major bottling companies are mentioned in second article. We use Kateya, Salvador, I don't know if they filter onsite. If so, it would be from Riberas well water. Bottled water and soda follows the largest population.

There are now two Chapala to Guadalajara pipelines.
https://www.water-technology.net/uncategorised/news101034-html/

OMG again!! This article is from 2010 and the uproar from the locals shut down the idea of another pipeline. With so much of the water taken from the lake leaking and the fact of leaking pipes in Guadalajara (if I remember right the lose was about 40%), the locals insisted that the SIAPA clean up their act before another pipeline was built. Todd Stong was in favor of another pipeline to insure that the water level in the lake wasn't compromised because Guadalajara was a heavy-hitter stakeholder. The pipeline was never built.
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Post by Gamina on Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:44 pm

BTW, there is no pipeline from Lake Chapala to CDMX.  They get some water from the Lerma River basin but not from the lake itself.  And the tap water in Guadalajara is NOT potable, for a variety of reasons. AND, I use Katya water which uses Jocotepec municipal water which they then filter and use reverse osmosis to clean before they bottle it. The further east you go the more arsenic in the water, due to the heavily volcanic ground. There are several volcanoes between here and San Pedro.
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Post by CanuckBob on Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:27 pm

Water is pumped from the lake to a reservoir just outside of Chapala. From there it goes to Guadalajara. I've been up to the reservoir. I agree there is no pipeline to CDMX.


Last edited by CanuckBob on Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Trailrunner on Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:29 pm

You are probably right, Smartalex, at least I hope you are.

Since diabetes and kidney disease go hand in hand, I wonder if there is an equally high rate of diabetes in those villages. Do you know?
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Post by CanuckBob on Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:31 pm

The lake certainly doesn't drop every year like it used too. Something has changed.....

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Post by Jreboll on Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:00 pm

Just now I’m watching a crime show about Odwalla apple juice which was causing kidney shutdown in kids. 66 people got sick and one child died in Seattle in 1996. Their juice wasn’t being pasteurized and may have gotten E.Coli from apples contaminated with deer droppings.

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Post by Gamina on Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:11 pm

[So where are the potable pipas getting their water from? The Lake Chapala water treatment plant? Therefore the lake. I imagine each truckload would have paperwork stating the water was potable when it left the plant.[/quote]
The pipa water that is discharged at water stores is NOT potable. The water stores filter and use reverse osmosis to clean the water before bottling it.
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Post by Gamina on Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:15 pm

Trailrunner wrote:You are probably right, Smartalex, at least I hope you are.

Since diabetes and kidney disease go hand in hand, I wonder if there is an equally high rate of diabetes in those villages. Do you know?

When talking with a friend and helping her with the genealogy of the people in the villages affected, the kidney disease appears to be genetic. There are mainly two very large families that carry the gene. Diabetes only exacerbates the problem. She said it's very difficult to get info out of the villagers even when questions of of lineage of parents and children is asked by local people. They are very reluctant to divulge any information to any one.
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Post by Gamina on Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:16 pm

CanuckBob wrote:The lake certainly doesn't drop every year like it used too. Something has changed.....

What's changed is the multitude of new dams on the Lerma that control the water.
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Post by Trailrunner on Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:58 am

Interesting. So inbreeding really is the reason? That explains a lot to me.

I found them tight-lipped and unwelcoming the day I went out there. Nobody came to greet us when we arrived. A few children came to see us but almost nobody was around and anyone who passed by was not friendly. The group kept explaining all the projects they were going to do and how they were planning to solve the water problem but I only saw and talked to a few kids. No adults. Not even when we were discussing where to put a food garden on a piece of property, we negotiated with a child who had to run into a house for permission to agree or disagree with our recommendations. I got the profound feeling we were not welcome and mentioned it in the car on the way home. I've been involved in several projects around the lake since I've been here and always been greeted with huge open arms, enthusiastic smiles, and grateful people. The feeling I had out in San Pedro was much different!

In walking around and down to the lake, I noticed the area around us was dirty. Lots of poop, dog and pig, in the streets just up from the lake awaiting a little rain to wash it right down into the lake at the foot of the street. No women with brooms sweeping up.

I'm trying not to be harsh but I felt something there that was not right or was not honest and made me not want to return. It was explained that the government was turning it's back on these pueblos and they said Todd Stong had been involved but was not any longer. I was taken into a home where several family members were suffering from end-stage kidney failure and awaiting either steady transportation to Guadalajara for dialysis or a transplant - neither of which appeared was going to happen any time soon. They were young people and their eyes and our conversations broke my heart.

I couldn't think of a sustainable solution for these people, except obviously to make pure water easily available, to keep the kids from dying. Inbreeding, if true, explains a lot.





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Post by Gamina on Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:13 am

I wonder, and this is just a guess, if because they are Cora Indians and are so closed to "strangers", even Mexicans, that they don't feel a kinship with Mexicans because they don't have much Spanish blood in them. They perhaps don't feel "Mexican" even though they live in Mexico. The local Indians are very different from the Purhépecha in Michoacan. Their personal habits are different and they speak a different language. Even though they tend to be clannish, they welcome strangers.
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Post by brigitte on Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:06 pm

I work with indigenous in Chiapas and many communities are very closed, same as San Pedro and people are suspecious of any stranger. At the beginning , I started going to these villages I went to city hall to tell the authorities why I was in the village so there was no misunderstanding. Stayed away from kids who are curious and always show up but down here if they suspect you of looking for organs they will burn you alive, so it is no joking matter..
Once you get accepted , many of the people will help you and receive you in their home but it is not easy.
It took me 5 years of regular visits in one place and 10 years in another.. people in these place do not move fast.. It s only now that a woman told me that when I first arrived they checked to see if I was involved in stealing organs.. If had known that I would hav never gone again...

I had a flat in San Pedro 15 years ago on the dirt road and men came out and helped me.. They asked for money for a coke and were very helpful although not that friendly but they did help me.. It is question to get to know one person , then one family get their trust and then the others open up but you have to go slowly .
The government down here ask me to explain some of the things they want to do and warn them when they make mstake because they know I will hear about it before they do and I can help since there is no money in it for me.

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