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Here's What Needs to be Fixed!

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Post by SunFan on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:33 am

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Post by gringal on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:28 pm

...and guess who benefited most from the recent tax cuts?

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Post by SunFan on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:53 pm

gringal wrote:...and guess who benefited most from the recent tax cuts?
You mean to imply it wasn't the poor and what's left of the middle class?

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Post by Zedinmexico on Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:33 pm

gringal wrote:...and guess who benefited most from the recent tax cuts?


Well two people can now earn 38,000 dollars a year and not pay federal taxes while it use to be 32,000 dollars a year was the limit at least in our situation. So we I am ashamed to say benefit from Trumps tax cut.  Like the 600 dollar taxable gift I didn't ask for it but I benefited from it.  My point is quite a few folks benefited from the tax cut not just rich people. We take out of our IRA right up to the limit of 38,000 dollars so we got to get our 6,000 dollars tax free under Trumps cuts.   Your mileage may vary due to your own tax situation. I may not have the right numbers as I picked it out of my head but we for sure were able to take out more tax free money due to Trump.

Lets keep the discussion honest. More than rich people benefited from Trumps tax cut it pains me to say because I know the cost of the cuts.

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Post by Playaboy on Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:00 pm


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Post by RickS on Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:50 pm

Yes, let's do keep this conversation honest....

I think that there is NO denying that due to the 2017 "tax rate cut" the poor were least helped if at all, in the "middle class" some benefitted a bit and others not, BUT higher wage earners businesses and corporations made out like bandits!  

See/read the following level-headed article analyzing the effects due to the 2017 tax cut plan. It's hard to read this and come away finding any meaningful tax reductions for anyone other than 'the rich and businesses/corporations'.

https://www.policygenius.com/taxes/who-benefited-most-from-the-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act/
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Post by mudgirl on Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:32 pm

Zedinmexico wrote:
gringal wrote:...and guess who benefited most from the recent tax cuts?


Well two people can now earn 38,000 dollars a year and not pay federal taxes while it use to be 32,000 dollars a year was the limit at least in our situation. So we I am ashamed to say benefit from Trumps tax cut.  Like the 600 dollar taxable gift I didn't ask for it but I benefited from it.  My point is quite a few folks benefited from the tax cut not just rich people. We take out of our IRA right up to the limit of 38,000 dollars so we got to get our 6,000 dollars tax free under Trumps cuts.   Your mileage may vary due to your own tax situation. I may not have the right numbers as I picked it out of my head but we for sure were able to take out more tax free money due to Trump.

Lets keep the discussion honest. More than rich people benefited from Trumps tax cut it pains me to say because I know the cost of the cuts.

Okay, so you personally benefited to the tune of $6000. But that's not really the point, is it? The point is that the rich, who could easily blow $6000 in an evening jetting halfway around the world on a spontaneous whim to have dinner that night in their favorite restaurant, are able to do those kinds of things due the tax cuts they are privileged to receive, while an ordinary citizen may be working 3 jobs to put a simple meal on the table for their families every night..

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Post by Zedinmexico on Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:49 am

mudgirl wrote:
Zedinmexico wrote:
gringal wrote:...and guess who benefited most from the recent tax cuts?


Well two people can now earn 38,000 dollars a year and not pay federal taxes while it use to be 32,000 dollars a year was the limit at least in our situation. So we I am ashamed to say benefit from Trumps tax cut.  Like the 600 dollar taxable gift I didn't ask for it but I benefited from it.  My point is quite a few folks benefited from the tax cut not just rich people. We take out of our IRA right up to the limit of 38,000 dollars so we got to get our 6,000 dollars tax free under Trumps cuts.   Your mileage may vary due to your own tax situation. I may not have the right numbers as I picked it out of my head but we for sure were able to take out more tax free money due to Trump.

Lets keep the discussion honest. More than rich people benefited from Trumps tax cut it pains me to say because I know the cost of the cuts.

Okay, so you personally benefited to the tune of $6000. But that's not really the point, is it? The point is that the rich, who could easily blow $6000 in an evening jetting halfway around the world on a spontaneous whim to have dinner that night in their favorite restaurant, are able to do those kinds of things due the tax cuts they are privileged to receive, while an ordinary citizen may be working 3 jobs to put a simple meal on the table for their families every night..

No I didn't have to pay taxes on 6000 dollars. Lots of folks other than rich people gained financially from Trumps tax cut. I have no idea what your point is other than emotion.

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Post by ComputerGuy on Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:08 am

the point is the incredibly lopsided application of tax law, making the rich so much richer, while everyone feels the loss because that money is used for investments that produces money that stays in the banks and does NOTHING for the economy.
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Post by Zedinmexico on Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:56 pm

ComputerGuy wrote:the point is the incredibly lopsided application of tax law, making the rich so much richer, while everyone feels the loss because that money is used for investments that produces money that stays in the banks and does NOTHING for the economy.

OK that point I understand.

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Post by slainte39 on Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:46 pm

This conversation is a classic example of crumbs be distributed and the receivers being quite happy while the wealthy feast on gourmet food and basic needs like infrastructure and climate control measures go unfunded.
"Oh, I´m so happy, I didn´t get taxed on $6,000. USD"

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Post by mudgirl on Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:12 pm

Zed, sorry, I misread your post, and do understand that you were talking about paying taxes on that money. But there was nothing whatsoever "emotional" about my response. Unless you consider that pointing out that the rich get richer on the backs of the poor is somehow a matter of emotion.

So you're happy with your middle class lifestyle and the fact that you got a tax cut. And what happens to others, or the fact that the wealthy should be paying their fair share is of no interest to you? Or are you one of those people who think the poor are only poor because they're lazy and the fat cats are entitled to keep as much of their often questionably gotten gains as they can?

I recall a radio interview I listened to many years ago, where the man being interviewed had done a research study regarding how much was spent administering welfare and other social programs designed to help the poor and disadvantaged. The numbers he came up with showed that if that money spent on admin was simply divided up equally between every adult and child who was benefiting from those programs, they wouldn't be poor anymore and wouldn't need that help.

A fair distribution of wealth, in the form of taxation, is what separates countries with a strong social network where no one goes hungry, has to be homeless, or without health care, and countries where the rich are obscenely wealthy beyond anything they could possibly need while others can barely afford food.

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Post by Zedinmexico on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:43 am

[quote="mudgirl"]Zed, sorry, I misread your post, and do understand that you were talking about paying taxes on that money. But there was nothing whatsoever "emotional" about my response. Unless you consider that pointing out that the rich get richer on the backs of the poor is somehow a matter of emotion.

So you're happy with your middle class lifestyle and the fact that you got a tax cut. And what happens to others, or the fact that the wealthy should be paying their fair share is of no interest to you? Or are you one of those people who think the poor are only poor because they're lazy and the fat cats are entitled to keep as much of their often questionably gotten gains as they can?

I recall a radio interview I listened to many years ago, where the man being interviewed had done a research study regarding how much was spent administering welfare and other social programs designed to help the poor and disadvantaged. The numbers he came up with showed that if that money spent on admin was simply divided up equally between every adult and child who was benefiting from those programs, they wouldn't be poor anymore and wouldn't need that help.

A fair distribution of wealth, in the form of taxation, is what separates countries with a strong social network where no one goes hungry, has to be homeless, or without health care, and countries where the rich are obscenely wealthy beyond anything they could possibly need while others can barely afford food.[/quote

I am not even going to answer this.  You have no idea what I believe.

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Post by SunFan on Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:01 am

mudgirl wrote:I recall a radio interview I listened to many years ago, where the man being interviewed had done a research study regarding how much was spent administering welfare and other social programs designed to help the poor and disadvantaged. The numbers he came up with showed that if that money spent on admin was simply divided up equally between every adult and child who was benefiting from those programs, they wouldn't be poor anymore and wouldn't need that help.

And only a couple of months ago Time magazine published an article comparing the costs of health care amongst rich nations.

The zinger in the article was the statement that if the US could reduce its "administrative" costs of delivering private health care, i.e. insurance companies, Doctors and hospital staff, government, from the current 37% of total health cost to the Canadian average of 13% the money saved alone would provide health care to every US resident.

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Post by ComputerGuy on Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:07 am

Everybody's gonna find a way to make a buck on every calamity. I just finished a long Rolling Stone article on how much money big pharma is making and stands to make on the Covid 19 vaccine thing. Billions and billions. Almost all research and development is paid for by the Federal government, not by the companies themselves. No reason for them to charge their outrageous prices, but they continue to tell us it's for R & D. The 20 last FDA approved major medicines were completely paid for by the Fed. Since 1930, the Fed has spent almost a trillion dollars this way. Then, after they pay for the work, they buy it back at the inflated prices.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/big-pharma-covid-19-profits-1041185/
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Post by Jreboll on Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:34 am

I’m hearing the word “neo-feudalism” used often to describe the direction that we are heading.

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Post by ferret on Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:11 am

Good article CG. 'Tis the way of Pharmaceutical companies to make a profit but the U.S. system of health care makes it very easy for them to pull it off.

I have read this part about five times now...
showing that Covid-19 patients taking remdesivir recovered after 11 days, compared with 15 days for placebo takers. In the U.S., he wrote, “earlier hospital discharge would result in hospital savings of approximately $12,000 per patient.”

The hilarious implication seemed to be that by shortening hospital stays by four days on average, remdesivir was worth $48,000 a dose.

I do not understand the math... it says $12,000 per PATIENT not $12,000 per DAY.
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Post by ComputerGuy on Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:24 am

Maybe he meant $12,000 daily savings per patient.
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Post by lakeside7 on Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:48 am

ComputerGuy wrote:Maybe he meant $12,000 daily savings per patient.

Off in a slightly different direction but medically related...Do you think the majority of Canadians agree with the BC Court decision;

https://www.everythingzoomer.com/general/2020/09/11/bc-court-deals-blow-to-private-health-care/

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Post by ferret on Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:09 pm

I certainly agree with the Court's decision and it is summed up nicely in this quote...

they warned that if Dr. Day won his Charter challenge, doctors would flee the public system and practice in the more lucrative private sphere, thus paving the way for a two-tiered medical system.

The rich can go anywhere they want to in the entire world to have any surgical procedure done.
This is about protecting the system for those who can't.
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Post by mattoleriver on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:34 pm

I had both hips replaced in the U.S. and one of those replacements was later replaced again. Each time I waited a few months for surgery, even the time when a failed (and very painful!) one had to be replaced.
What do Canadians consider to be a long wait time for such surgery?
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Post by ferret on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:11 pm

I think it depends on where you are located and the circumstances. My hubby waited three months for his hip surgery in Owen Sound, Ontario thirty years ago. He was rubbing bone on bone with no cartilage left. It was still going strong after 25 years.
He had the other one replaced in Guadalajara in 2012... and was asked what day, what time, what hospital and what Surgeon he would prefer.
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Post by lakeside7 on Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:52 pm

ferret wrote:I certainly agree with the Court's decision and it is summed up nicely in this quote...

they warned that if Dr. Day won his Charter challenge, doctors would flee the public system and practice in the more lucrative private sphere, thus paving the way for a two-tiered medical system.

The rich can go anywhere they want to in the entire world to have any surgical procedure done.
This is about protecting the system for those who can't.

So living in Mexico you are happy to have the choice..But should Mexico go the Canada route??

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Post by ferret Yesterday at 7:11 am

What choice? Neither one of us was ever eligible for IMSS or Seguro Popular or even private insurance because of pre existing conditions.
However, Mexico's health care system has been around a lot longer than Canada's but the tax base to support it? meh.
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Post by lakeside7 Yesterday at 6:25 pm

ferret wrote:What choice? Neither one of us was ever eligible for IMSS or Seguro Popular or even private insurance because of pre existing conditions.
However, Mexico's health care system has been around a lot longer than Canada's but the tax base to support it? meh.

Yes, your choices are rather limited.....but I guess given your alternatives... your choice is to stay in MX and pay as you go

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