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New RFC Requirement for Expats, From the Mexico Daily News

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Post by CanuckBob Sat May 21, 2022 7:32 am

I have been to SMA 4 times and every time it has been in December or January as we were pet-sitting for friends there. It was always cold and cloudy. I don't recall ever wearing shorts on my visits there. I need to see it in the summer.

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Post by ferret Sat May 21, 2022 7:41 am

Totally agree. ANY time other than those two months is fine. Very dry heat by comparison to here but always cooler at night because of the higher altitude. The Jardin in front of the Parroquia used to be wall to wall people all day, every day. Lots of vendors, lots of activity and VIBRANT. We were last there in 2013. So quiet, it was like a funeral.
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Post by mudgirl Sat May 21, 2022 10:26 am

cypress wrote:
mudgirl wrote:
cypress wrote:
I ask because it sounds fishy.

What sounds fishy? The  publication or the new RFC requirement? Why would you think a new requirement like that sounds fishy?
Because it dies not make sense.

What doesn't make sense about it? Are you aware that US residents are required to have a social security number? So why is it fishy that Mexico would also require that?

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Post by BisbeeGal Sat May 21, 2022 10:55 am

mudgirl wrote:
cypress wrote:
mudgirl wrote:
cypress wrote:
I ask because it sounds fishy.

What sounds fishy? The  publication or the new RFC requirement? Why would you think a new requirement like that sounds fishy?
Because it dies not make sense.

What doesn't make sense about it? Are you aware that US residents are required to have a social security number? So why is it fishy that Mexico would also require that?

Foreign residents in the US who work are required to get SSN's.  "Expats" in the US that have no US income are not required to get an SSN.  

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Post by mudgirl Sat May 21, 2022 11:16 am

BisbeeGal wrote:

Foreign residents in the US who work are required to get SSN's.  "Expats" in the US that have no US income are not required to get an SSN.  


Not just for those who work. Needed to get a drivers license, open a bank account, and other things.

https://www.ssa.gov/ssnvisa/Handout_11_1.html#:~:text=Each%20permanent%20resident%20needs%20a,return%2C%20and%20for%20other%20purposes.

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Post by BisbeeGal Sat May 21, 2022 11:28 am

This also from SSA site.

Foreign Workers and Social Security Numbers
Social Security numbers are used to report a person’s wages to the government and to determine a person’s eligibility for Social Security benefits. You need a Social Security number to get a job, collect Social Security benefits, and receive some other government services. If you’re temporarily in the United States to work, your employer will ask for your Social Security number. In general, only noncitizens authorized by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to work in the United States can get a Social Security number. Although many other businesses, such as banks and credit companies, also ask for your number, you aren’t required to provide it. You can get many services without a Social Security number, including a driver’s license.
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Post by cypress Sat May 21, 2022 5:31 pm

This makes sense: ""Expats" in the US that have no US income are not required to get an SSN"
I have an American SSN even though I have never worked there. And I am a Canadian.

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Post by BisbeeGal Sat May 21, 2022 5:39 pm

I just did some quick & dirty math:

Population GDL-Metro Area:  5.3 million (fyi, doesn't include Chapala...goes as far as Ixtlahuacan)
% under age of 18:  25%
# Residents GDL-Metro subject to RFC: about 4 million (75% of 5.3 million)
# Already having in-person RFC's (fingerprints, etc.):  my estimate, maybe 30%??  It's not like gardeners, maids, waiters, laborers, shop workers, factory workers or most employees have one.  If anything I am being generous.  
# of SAT offices in Guadalajara: 2
Deadline to go to SAT office: June 30th
Work Days between today and June 30th: 28
# of people needing appointments:  2.8 million (70% of 4 million)
Daily number of people needing appointments thru June 30th: 100,000
Spread over 2 GDL offices per day: 50,000

Yeah, that oughta work   Very Happy
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Post by Marrell Sat May 21, 2022 6:26 pm

BisbeeGal wrote:I just did some quick & dirty math:

Population GDL-Metro Area:  5.3 million (fyi, doesn't include Chapala...goes as far as Ixtlahuacan)
% under age of 18:  25%
# Residents GDL-Metro subject to RFC: about 4 million (75% of 5.3 million)
# Already having in-person RFC's (fingerprints, etc.):  my estimate, maybe 30%??  It's not like gardeners, maids, waiters, laborers, shop workers, factory workers or most employees have one.  If anything I am being generous.  
# of SAT offices in Guadalajara: 2
Deadline to go to SAT office: June 30th
Work Days between today and June 30th: 28
# of people needing appointments:  2.8 million (70% of 4 million)
Daily number of people needing appointments thru June 30th: 100,000
Spread over 2 GDL offices per day: 50,000

Yeah, that oughta work   Very Happy

This was my first thought - ain't gonna happen by July1 2022

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Post by mudgirl Sat May 21, 2022 6:42 pm

All I can say is that I am really glad I already have an RFC and the most recent Constancia. This definitely sounds like a totally unworkable clusterf**k.

Of course the Federal SAT head honchos in Mexico City who come up with this stuff don't actually deal with the public in the regional offices. They likely come up with this stuff over 3 hour champagne lunches in some upscale Argentinian steakhouse.

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Post by cypress Sat May 21, 2022 7:39 pm

CanuckBob wrote:I have been to SMA 4 times and every time it has been in December or January as we were pet-sitting for friends there. It was always cold and cloudy. I don't recall ever wearing shorts on my visits there. I need to see it in the summer.
I was there once for 2 hours-that was enough.

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Post by ferret Sat May 21, 2022 7:50 pm

That's kind of like saying "I was in the Denver airport for two hours, so I have seen Denver".
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Post by mudgirl Sat May 21, 2022 8:57 pm

If I came to Sayulita for the first time and only went to the main beach and the downtown core, for 2 hours, I would wonder why anyone would ever want to hang out or live in this tourist trap. My place is a 5 minute drive to downtown, in the quiet countryside by the arroyo, and it's like a different world- if someone blindfolded you and dropped you off here, you would never know you were in what you had thought represented Sayulita.

I once read a post from some 6 month tourist on a forum thread where locals were venting about the tourists who walk down the middle of the street 4 abreast, oblivious, holding up traffic. This guy asked why everyone was in such a rush, they should chill out and just walk everywhere, like he did. It was pointed out to him that not everyone was on vacation, staying somewhere that 50 pound garafons of drinking water were provided to them, they might have to go pick one up themselves, and that believe it or not, people actually lived here full time and worked here, had busy schedules, transported tools, materials, furniture, loads of groceries, or had to attend to business in various parts of town, that weren't exactly the walking distance he had from his rental to the store, the beach, and the restaurants.

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Post by ferret Sat May 21, 2022 9:16 pm

Sayulita is so cool and my granddaughters loved it. Every time I go there, it reminds me of the sixties... hippies, beach bums and surfers and all the handicrafts that go with them. A time warp. However, I was always glad to go back to San Pancho and it's sleepy laid back atmosphere.
Thank heaven that the majority of tourists are not so ignorant.
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Post by cypress Sun May 22, 2022 7:41 am

ferret wrote:That's kind of like saying "I was in the Denver airport for two hours, so I have seen Denver".
Not remotely.

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Post by cypress Sun May 22, 2022 7:58 am

mudgirl wrote:
cypress wrote:
mudgirl wrote:
cypress wrote:
I ask because it sounds fishy.

What sounds fishy? The  publication or the new RFC requirement? Why would you think a new requirement like that sounds fishy?
Because it dies not make sense.

What doesn't make sense about it? Are you aware that US residents are required to have a social security number? So why is it fishy that Mexico would also require that?
Of course, I am aware of that. But why foreigners with no Mexico income. Control? Keep n eye out for money laundering or more income for the government

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Post by cypress Sun May 22, 2022 8:00 am

mudgirl wrote:
cypress wrote:
mudgirl wrote:
cypress wrote:
I ask because it sounds fishy.

What sounds fishy? The  publication or the new RFC requirement? Why would you think a new requirement like that sounds fishy?
Because it does not make sense.

What doesn't make sense about it? Are you aware that US residents are required to have a social security number? So why is it fishy that Mexico would also require that?

Of course, I am aware of that. But why foreigners with no Mexico income. Control? Keep an eye out for money laundering or more income for the government

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Post by CanuckBob Sun May 22, 2022 8:21 am

I suspect they will eventually be going after "worldwide income" taxes from the expats. There is income that isn't covered by tax treaties such as dividends on some investments.

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Post by ferret Sun May 22, 2022 9:35 am

Then you would get into double taxation since I already pay taxes on my Canadian income and pensions. Not saying that they wouldn't try to do it but it would be a frikkin' nightmare.
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Post by BisbeeGal Sun May 22, 2022 9:46 am

ferret wrote:Then you would get into double taxation since I already pay taxes on my Canadian income and pensions. Not saying that they wouldn't try to do it but it would be a frikkin' nightmare.

The taxation issue is why I decided to not apply for MX Citizenship. Yes there would be offsetting credits, but dealing with IRS is enough of a hassle and don't need to double the fun by dealing with Hacienda.
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Post by Carry Bean Sun May 22, 2022 10:44 am

Personally, I’m in no hurry to get into this RFC mess. I don’t relish the idea of getting an appointment, then going to a crowded office to deal with this nonsense. I’m still careful with Covid around, no matter what the right wing evangelists say and a crowded government office is my idea of hell on earth.  I’m going to die in this house & no need to buy a car so I’ll wait until the hysteria calms down.

My Spanish is terrible so no desire to get Mexican citizenship for the reasons Bisbeegal stated.

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Post by CanuckBob Sun May 22, 2022 11:55 am

ferret wrote:Then you would get into double taxation since I already pay taxes on my Canadian income and pensions. Not saying that they wouldn't try to do it but it would be a frikkin' nightmare.

There are some forms of income that aren't covered by the tax treaty. Canadian CPP and OAS are covered but certain dividends, royalties and interest payment are not necessarily covered by the treaty. You would be paying Mexican taxes on some of this. Of course the kicker is it would be up to you to declare this income. It's not likely the Mexican government is linked with Canada like the US is.

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Post by ferret Sun May 22, 2022 12:04 pm

It is also the reason why I opted not to become a citizen. Anyway, I like being a Canadian citizen and I need triple citizenship (British, Canadian and Mexican) like I need a hole in the head.
I have royalties and dividends. IF I receive them as "income" then I am taxed in Canada. However, I am also officially a non-resident of Canada and have been since 1997. We had to do a deemed disposition of assets and paid the capital gains owing to achieve that. It's one of the reasons (way at the bottom of the list) why I don't want to reside in Canada again. The kids will receive everything capital gains free. When they inherit, the capital gains ticker starts up again if they choose to remain in Canada.
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Post by brigitte Sun May 22, 2022 1:11 pm

My husband was US citizen living in Mexico and ended up with the Mexican citizen ship. He never reported his bi nationality but we had no US address and an International joint account with Schwab.. The first thing Schwab did when I reported him dead is to put a hold on the joint account and I have to prove he did not have more than 60 000 dollars in non transferable assets worldwide before they re open the account.. so the US looks at worldwide assets, no doubt about that.

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Post by ferret Sun May 22, 2022 1:18 pm

Too bad you reported his death on a joint account. That was definitely not in your favour. The U.S. is also being a p.i.t.a with a friend. Both she and her husband who died are American citizens. She was advised to take out as much money as possible from all their joint accounts BEFORE informing them of his death.
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Post by CanuckBob Sun May 22, 2022 1:54 pm

ferret wrote:It is also the reason why I opted not to become a citizen. Anyway, I like being a Canadian citizen and I need triple citizenship (British, Canadian and Mexican) like I need a hole in the head.
I have royalties and dividends. IF I receive them as "income" then I am taxed in Canada. However, I am also officially a non-resident of Canada and have been since 1997. We had to do a deemed disposition of assets and paid the capital gains owing to achieve that. It's one of the reasons (way at the bottom of the list) why I don't want to reside in Canada again. The kids will receive everything capital gains free. When they inherit, the capital gains ticker starts up again if they choose to remain in Canada.

Well technically some of your royalties and dividends could also be subject to Mexican taxes if you choose to declare and file. Fortunately Mexico is not "financially" connected to Canada like the US is (for now). Canada and the US share information with each other so if you lived in the US things could be different. I have some friends that are quite concerned about this and are thinking of leaving Mexico, however, they are in a completely different tax bracket then most of us. They are starting to look at "tax haven" countries such as Antigua which has no income tax.

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