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CNN Video on Digital Nomads Moving to CDMX

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dichosalocura
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Post by BisbeeGal Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:28 am

The most interesting part is at the end when the reporter says that some tourists are only getting 10 days for their "tourist" stays.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/business/2022/08/15/americans-moving-to-mexico-city-relocating-wfh-cheaper-living-costs-rent-prices-culver-lead-vpx.cnn
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Post by Carry Bean Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:33 am

I’ve noticed a lot more on Facebook asking about internet speeds in different areas because they will be working remotely.

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Post by mudgirl Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:24 am

I wonder if the ones given 10 days were those who didn't have return tickets, maybe leading INM to think that they assumed they could just stay as long as they wanted to.

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Post by Jreboll Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:17 am

Carry Bean wrote:I’ve noticed a lot more on Facebook asking about internet speeds in different areas because they will be working remotely.
I just saw an offer in Jiquilpan, Mich. for internet speeds of 1000 mb for about 65dls/month. Not bad. That certainly makes it possible to do remote work.

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Post by CanuckBob Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:55 pm

Good lets hope they go there............ Beer

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Post by Rory2u Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:27 pm

They are all over Mexico and are becoming very Unpopular! Because Mexico allows then to enter on the FMM Visitor Permit, they are pretty much untraceable and many have no intention in adhering to the time limitations imposed on the Visitor Permit. In some areas, they have developed a "network" where they can get counterfeit Mexican Documents like Vaccination Docs, Health Cards, Driver's Licenses, etc. Additionally they network coffee shops and restaurants where they can get free high speed WIFI.

So in so many ways, they burden the system but pay no taxes on income to Mexico!

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Post by dichosalocura Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:46 pm

Well if they are working online and not stealing jobs from Mexicans.  They earn mostly in dollars and in other foreign currencies.  If they choose to reside here I see it as a win win for both as long as they are investing their money into the local economies.  The only problem I can see is the potential for gentrification of certain neighborhoods if they all group up in the same areas.

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Post by dichosalocura Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:59 pm

And I truly doubt that many younger digital nomads would even be interested in the Chapala area. Too many grumpy old folks here. Lol.

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Post by CanuckBob Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:08 pm

dichosalocura wrote:Well if they are working online and not stealing jobs from Mexicans.  They earn mostly in dollars and in other foreign currencies.  If they choose to reside here I see it as a win win for both as long as they are investing their money into the local economies.  The only problem I can see is the potential for gentrification of certain neighborhoods if they all group up in the same areas.

Well if they all group in the same area then IMN should swoop in and round them up. A few weeks in a Mexican holding cell may discourage others from coming down and staying here illegally.

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Post by dichosalocura Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:34 pm

Hey I never said they should be here illegally. But by being fairly young if they are, they have a better chance of assimilating into the Mexican culture and picking up Spanish and definitely contributing to the Mexican society that these old retirement towns could only dream of. Sure of course, there are tons of charities and contributions made to the local community by the expat community here at Lake Chapala but one thing they don"t do well is assimilate..

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Post by caligirl108 Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:28 pm

CDMX is a very young city.. and up & coming Mexican millennials (who emulate style, coolness, but value professional, corporate or government jobs) are simply being upstaged by the American millennials (26-41 y/o) who have more money, freedom & a tendency to clump together as 'urban tribe', reinforcing their Sense of Self, being obnoxiously public about it. A new form of 'ugly American'.

Gotta rub the cultural elite the wrong way.  Remember: Mexican millennials are the prodigy of AMLO (he's 68) so while Mex Mills have bravado, in no way can they compete financially or with the inflated level of confidence of American tech 'elite'.  The resentment must be palpable.  Likely not a coincidence that policy shifts re: FMM/tourist changed suddenly, giving great latitude to immigration officers as to entry duration...esp given such tourist millienials are often immature, overly entitled & kind of easy to identify. They have no loyalty to Mexico & are causing competition/jealousy amongst Mex millennial generational identity.  So I think it has been handled.

With the poor internet speed/reliability around here, I don't think many will stick around here. They have formed a group here now - just had their 1st gathering.. Maybe Guad's urban amenities could attract  but the New Gen folks add another element. possibly problematic w chest-butting..  Must be terribly embarrassing for AMLO/CDMX cultural elite to see all these rag-tag, maximally pierced & tatted up brats with fantasy hair looking like they own the place.. Seattle, without the rain & snooty vegan cuisine.. LOL.

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Post by Carry Bean Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:42 pm

caligirl108 wrote:CDMX is a very young city.. and up & coming Mexican millennials (who emulate style, coolness, but value professional, corporate or government jobs) are simply being upstaged by the American millennials (26-41 y/o) who have more money, freedom & a tendency to clump together as 'urban tribe', reinforcing their Sense of Self, being obnoxiously public about it. A new form of 'ugly American'.

Gotta rub the cultural elite the wrong way.  Remember: Mexican millennials are the prodigy of AMLO (he's 68) so while Mex Mills have bravado, in no way can they compete financially or with the inflated level of confidence of American tech 'elite'.  The resentment must be palpable.  Likely not a coincidence that policy shifts re: FMM/tourist changed suddenly, giving great latitude to immigration officers as to entry duration...esp given such tourist millienials are often immature, overly entitled & kind of easy to identify. They have no loyalty to Mexico & are causing competition/jealousy amongst Mex millennial generational identity.  So I think it has been handled.

With the poor internet speed/reliability around here, I don't think many will stick around here. They have formed a group here now - just had their 1st gathering.. Maybe Guad's urban amenities could attract  but the New Gen folks add another element. possibly problematic w chest-butting..  Must be terribly embarrassing for AMLO/CDMX cultural elite to see all these rag-tag, maximally pierced & tatted up brats with fantasy hair looking like they own the place.. Seattle, without the rain & snooty vegan cuisine.. LOL.

Oh, dear. Shocked

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Post by caligirl108 Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:04 am

one more comment re: retired expat contribution to the Mexican economy.  With the number of men who marry Mexican women, support them while alive & then provide inheritance of a house & social security income upon death, the government has way fewer widows to worry about. As a country without a safety net, this is important.

Also look at booming healthcare industry retirees create - locally & use of Guad docs & hospitals. Secure Lakeside employment of nursing homes, care-givers, in-home assistants of all kinds.  It's a pretty serious number that Immigration Services will stay mindful of.   Retiree permanent visas by definition bring huge pension income in. Just look at the expansion of grocery stores Lakeside in less than 3 years, its unbelievable. Pensioners here know how to spend money & do so. Millenials do not & never will have these kind of assets.  While assimilation is not a word I would use here, there are many fine adjectives & attributes of retiree generation that created a strong Lakeside. Growth is its Achilles heel now, a result of success.

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Post by Carry Bean Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:37 am

Good points. We do contribute a lot but we sure get more than we give by being treated so wonderfully. I hope it makes up for any random ugliness some idiot ex-pats may inflict on our hosts.

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Post by mudgirl Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:58 am

BisbeeGal wrote:The most interesting part is at the end when the reporter says that some tourists are only getting 10 days for their "tourist" stays.


Something else interesting that Mexico has recently done- up until now, a temporary resident could get an RFC number. They have just kiboshed that.

A couple of years ago, SAT started making Airbnb, VRBO, etc, charge, withhold, and submit Mexican taxes (IVA, occupancy tax, and income tax) on bookings. This cracked down on foreigners with rental properties here making money on their rentals illegally. (Usually the owners use it as a vacation home themselves, listing it for rent the rest of the year)

If you have an RFC, report your earnings, and pay taxes, the income tax withheld is 4%. If you don't, it's 20%. So all these Airbnb hosts who only have tourist visas, yet have thought they could make money here without paying Mexican taxes, are being hit big time and freaking out.
And up til now, if they got temp residency, they could get an RFC and pay the 4% income tax. Now that is only possible with permanent residency.

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Post by BisbeeGal Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:43 am

As MEX transitions from a cash-only economy, it should be able to find and tap into more revenue streams that have gone untaxed.

Since SAT started requiring most businesses to issue facturas, two businesses that I frequent have gone from 'no receipts' or 'hand written receipts' to Point of Sale cash register systems and receipts.

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Post by CanuckBob Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:47 pm

mudgirl wrote:
BisbeeGal wrote:The most interesting part is at the end when the reporter says that some tourists are only getting 10 days for their "tourist" stays.


Something else interesting that Mexico has recently done- up until now, a temporary resident could get an RFC number. They have just kiboshed that.

A couple of years ago, SAT started making Airbnb, VRBO, etc, charge, withhold, and submit Mexican taxes (IVA, occupancy tax, and income tax) on bookings. This cracked down on foreigners with rental properties here making money on their rentals illegally. (Usually the owners use it as a vacation home themselves, listing it for rent the rest of the year)

If you have an RFC, report your earnings, and pay taxes, the income tax withheld is 4%. If you don't, it's 20%. So all these Airbnb hosts who only have tourist visas, yet have thought they could make money here without paying Mexican taxes, are being hit big time and freaking out.
And up til now, if they got temp residency, they could get an RFC and pay the 4% income tax. Now that is only possible with permanent residency.

Sure that's AirBnB. They can use VRBO and Booking.Com, etc., who withhold the same amount of taxes for everyone (not nearly 20%).

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Post by mudgirl Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:22 pm

CanuckBob wrote:
mudgirl wrote:
BisbeeGal wrote:The most interesting part is at the end when the reporter says that some tourists are only getting 10 days for their "tourist" stays.


Something else interesting that Mexico has recently done- up until now, a temporary resident could get an RFC number. They have just kiboshed that.

A couple of years ago, SAT started making Airbnb, VRBO, etc, charge, withhold, and submit Mexican taxes (IVA, occupancy tax, and income tax) on bookings. This cracked down on foreigners with rental properties here making money on their rentals illegally. (Usually the owners use it as a vacation home themselves, listing it for rent the rest of the year)

If you have an RFC, report your earnings, and pay taxes, the income tax withheld is 4%. If you don't, it's 20%. So all these Airbnb hosts who only have tourist visas, yet have thought they could make money here without paying Mexican taxes, are being hit big time and freaking out.
And up til now, if they got temp residency, they could get an RFC and pay the 4% income tax. Now that is only possible with permanent residency.
7

Sure that's AirBnB. They can use VRBO and Booking.Com, etc., who withhold the same amount of taxes for everyone (not nearly 20%).

I'm not sure about that, as I only list on Airbnb and have always had an RFC and paid taxes, so mine is 4%. I don't think that 20% for non-RFC holders is Airbnb driven- it's SAT that is calling those shots. The IVA and occupancy taxes are the same for everyone- it's the ISR that 20% is being withheld on for those without an RFC. But I could be wrong as far as what VRBO and Booking withhold.

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Post by CanuckBob Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:51 am

The IVA and occupancy tax is added to my rate and charged directly to the guest and submitted by the booking sites. I just had $19.00 CAD income tax withheld on a $478.00 CAD payment from VRBO which is 4%. I am listed with Trip Advisor, AirBnB, VRBO, Expedia and Booking.com. So far AirBnB is the only one penalizing accounts that don't provide an RFC. The others threaten to cut you off without it but I haven't heard of anyone getting cut off yet. I hope they do cut them off........more business for me......lol. Will they be rescinding all the RFC's given out to Temporal visa holders?

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Post by mudgirl Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:25 am

CanuckBob wrote: Will they be rescinding all the RFC's given out to Temporal visa holders?

Good question. I wonder if they'll be grandfathered in, or how that will be handled. Most likely will be a clusterf**k.

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Post by dixonge Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:40 am

mudgirl wrote:Something else interesting that Mexico has recently done- up until now, a temporary resident could get an RFC number. They have just kiboshed that.

So all the people reporting that they went to SAT in Guadalajara and got their RFC with just a residente temporale card are ... making it up? scratch
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Post by mudgirl Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:48 am

dixonge wrote:
mudgirl wrote:Something else interesting that Mexico has recently done- up until now, a temporary resident could get an RFC number. They have just kiboshed that.

So all the people reporting that they went to SAT in Guadalajara and got their RFC with just a residente temporale card are ... making it up? scratch

The info that temp residents won't be eligible for RFCs was very recent- I think I read that only a week and a half ago.

And like many Mex. govt. things, it may have been a very ill-thought out idea that they will end up backtracking on, like saying everyone needed the RFC and Constancia by June 30.

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Post by dixonge Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:52 am

Well, they let me make an appointment using the curp from my card, so I guess I will find out Monday
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Post by Rory2u Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:01 am

For those living in denial that the digital nomads might be either here or looking at moving here, you may wish to read this article on Oaxaca:
https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/changes-in-oaxaca-brought-by-foreigners/?utm_source=MND%20mail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MNT&pnespid=uehoCCdAMqdLxPPH9j2zCZHT5wOpU4FnNLWmxuR58BhmdaFNUte2eJn.5.eQ9M39KlNbVwGIiA

If you have ever spent time in Oaxaca - it isn't difficult to extend the process most anywhere in Mexico!

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Post by CanuckBob Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:41 am

I think these journalists underestimate the positive financial impact that the expats bring to Mexico. The expats in and around lake Chapala bring well over $150,000,000 USD into this area each and every year. I can't imagine how many billions of dollars all the expats bring into Mexico each year.

Unfortunately this "anti foreigner" sentiment is being fueled by the very top. 2024 can't come fast enough.

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