they are coming down !!

Lady Otter Latté wrote:Seventyseven, how much is the Presidenté getting paid? Was it a lump sum or is it a monthly payment as long as the barriers stay up?

LOLOLOLOLOL

Lady Otter Latté wrote:Seventyseven, how much is the Presidenté getting paid? Was it a lump sum or is it a monthly payment as long as the barriers stay up?

Something wicked  ,  this way comes.

I am just melting butter for my popcorn.

How many of the whiners are voters?  How many of the whiners made campaign contributions to the current administration?  How many signatures on a petitions does it take to buy a kilo of tortillas?

Today they are barriers that are only closed at night.  Tomorrow it will be a couple of dump trucks leaving a couple of tons of boulders at both ends of La Floresta.  That will close it forever. Just ask the people in lower Riberas, south of Mirasol.

we were specifically asked at the meeting between hector and the municipio to persue this form of complaint. it was agreed it was an illegal act at the meeting and confirmed by his secretary separately., this week that he has signed a decree for them to be fully removed, again verified personaly by his secretary.read the statement in the Guadalajara reporter as well...there have been at least four petitons submitted to date. with appx 75% Mexicans, who are voters and residents here. what has happened at mirasol has no bearing on this.how can they close ramon corona and camino real with boulders ??? ridiculous even bothering to write it. tortillas ?? what are you on ?

Playaboy wrote:I am just melting butter for my popcorn.

How many of the whiners are voters?  How many of the whiners made campaign contributions to the current administration?  How many signatures on a petitions does it take to buy a kilo of tortillas?

.

You better not be making campaign contributions if you are on any Visa.  That is political activity and a big no no unless you are a Mexican. I can't believe you said that.


Z

I wonder how many are actually inconvenienced a daily basis, most likely a handful, if that many. One person complained he can't use Paseo de las Olas, (in La Floresta), when he needs to go to the airport in the AM. How often does that occur, once or twice a year? As he lives in San Antonio he is able to drive approximately the same distance to Libertad and then up to the carretera. Of course, if the barriers come down there is always the possibility LF will close off las Olas, creating the same situation for this man. A second San Antonian complained she couldn't come from the west home after being at el rojo. OK, a slight inconvenience, one time.
There is little to no traffic on Ramon Corona after 9:30 - 10:00 PM other than an occassional horseman.
When Cruz Rojo or the police need to go to La Floresta, they take the carretera, and the hotel doesn't seem to have a problem with this.
Perhaps LF is planning on closing the three north south streets with one having a gate. Has anyone checked that out?
As to Paseo la Huerta, this is a LF street and it would seem they have every right to make it a dead-end if they wish. I believe that was done quite some time ago. The yacht club and hotel do not seem to have any problems with this either.
Do I use this street? Yes, quite often and many times after dark and quite possibly more often than most of the posters. Do I have my knickers in a twist because I occassionaly cannot drive the way I wish? No, as I do not believe it is all about me and if the barriors give some people a sense of security, so be it.
That is just my point of view

Camino Real is not a private road, and never has been one.

Exactly. Where does it stop if you allow someone to put up barriers on public roads that were there long before the someone was?

The ironic part is that most of the house breakers around here are on foot. And, of course, there are no gates between La Floresta and the carretera. Why anyone would think these gates are anything other than a nuisance for the residents and neighbors escapes me.

This isn't really about who is more or less inconvenienced by the closures.

It's about the fact that the El Camino Real happens to far pre-date La Floresta by hundreds of years, and has always been an open "highway". No one has the right to close this road, and the amount of perceived security some residents may feel doesn't trump that.

Those who have either a case of greed or a grudge can enter La Floresta by any number of routes to rob or murder the residents. Those flimsy little barriers aren't going to stop them. As a preventive measure, they are a bad joke.

If you want security in your home, there are any number of more effective ways to achieve it.

And, as a matter of curiosity, what gives the La Floresta residents the notion that they are entitled to perpetrate an illegal closure that will inconvenience anyone at all?

The funny part is....the crooks come in on foot...hop over the fence... grab the goods and hop back over  to their waiting  car...but of course they won't be followed because the gate is locked!!!  Yup... I can see how well this will work.    

And, as a matter of curiosity, what gives the La Floresta residents the notion that they are entitled to perpetrate an illegal closure that will inconvenience anyone at all?

Why don't you go ask them and let us know?

I do not care one way or the other whether gates are there or not. I do drive that route often, mostly during the day but also at night. If I have to go up to the carretera at night, I will. Actually, I find it a little creepy to drive through there after dark. It just seems a great shame that people emigrate to another country and then decide that they are in charge of enforcing laws and deciding what is allowed and what is good for the locals. Especially if some of them are only here for six months of the year, or less. Let the locals sort things out for themselves and don't think you know what is best for them. Many of them have more brains then you do.

Addressed to commentor itsme: My sentiments exactly, I waited for this for years. Floresta is a high crime dangerous place, especially Los Olas. You would not believe how many times i called the association police. The Presidents hands could be tied, as he is in the middle. Hector has zero power, he can only present the petitions to the City Hall. The Mexicans with the money rule. Usually our country works that way as well, incase some people are not aware of this fact.

hickton wrote:we were specifically asked at the meeting between hector and the municipio to persue this form of complaint. it was agreed it was an illegal act at the meeting and confirmed by his secretary separately., this week that he has signed a decree for them to be fully removed, again verified personaly by his secretary.read the statement in the Guadalajara reporter as well...there have been at least four petitons submitted to date. with appx 75% Mexicans, who are voters and residents here. what has happened at mirasol has no bearing on this.how can they close ramon corona and camino real with boulders ??? ridiculous even bothering to write it. tortillas ?? what are you on ?

I am on the beach in the Riviera Maya, drinking adult bevs, and watching the pretty young eye candy.  That is what I am on.  This thread has been very entertaining to read.

The "ILLEGAL" barriers have been there for over a month.  If the police thought these barriers were such a public safety menace they would have been long gone.  If the Presidente wanted them removed they would be gone.  Instead he says "bring me more petitions". Next he will tell you to get an amaparo.

Nobody asked expats opinion if these gates were valid safety deterrents.  Nobody asked expats if they make sense.  Nobody ask expats anything?  The powers that be don't want your opinion.

Expats don't vote, don't contribute money to campaigns, and don't matter much at all to the politicians.  Expats shouldn't be signing petitions either.

Continue to whine and somebody with clout will close it permanently.  I have seen roads closed with boulders before.  All it takes is 10,000 pesos and a couple of dump trucks.  Then the municipo says, we don't have the money to remove them.  Road closed!!!!!  Is that what everyone wants?

All of the complainers, whiners,  are being played the fool.  The barriers were put up by affluent people who PAY and vote.  You might as well get used to driving a little further after dark.

Or open your wallet and play the game.

You are so right. Money talks

While Gringal is right on the facts, Playaboy is right on how things actually work here.  There is much more rule of men than rule of law in Mexico and that is something we have no control over.  The barriers will remain and La Floresta will continue to have crime problems because of the poor security of many of the homes there.

It's an annoyance but certainly not the end of the world and if there is a solution, it will have to come from the Mexican community.

It will be interesting to see how long it is before similar barriers go up on the carretera entrances.  I give it a couple of months at the most once they see that nothing is going to be done about the ones on Camino Real.

"Let the locals sort things out for themselves and don't think you know what is best for them. Many of them have more brains then you do."
(It's me)
_______________________________________________________
When reason and civility fails, send an Insultogram, eh?

In the first place, I don't need to ask the residents of La Floresta what they think since the highway doesn't belong to them.  It belongs to everyone and it is they whose sense of entitlement (and money) is choosing to close it.

I don't think the issue of closing the ancient highway involves brains, straight thinking or even security.
"Follow the money" is what it's all about, and since I've lived in Mexico for over ten years, it would be nearly impossible for me to be unaware of that.  

When the next crime happens in that area and they discover that they are just as vulnerable with their new "security" measures, we will see how the locals sort it out.  Maybe a moat around the entire development, complete with alligators, would help.
 

the amount of information flowing from the mouths of those who reckon they know how the system works here is a joy to behold !! a guy slurping and goggling babes on the beach, must have a wealth of experience in Mexican matters. the guy who is on the ajijic advisory committee, who I am sure must mix and speak with the locals in their own language , to understand what the locals need, will therefore have to accept if in the view of playaboy, the committee is a waste of time and effort. if as he says" nobody asks ex pats anything" . "the powers that be don't want your opinion".
I suggest that those who don't integrate with mexico and Mexicans and rely on gringo scare mongering myths, should broaden their local knowledge before posting such drivel.

Hickton, you made a good point. I'm glad we have the Advisory Committee, and they did get as far as getting a promise that since those barriers are illegal, they will come down. When, is another question, along with whether infusions of money will prop them up, regardless of promises made.
The good news is that there are some potholes getting fixed.

things will happen , just takes time here as those "in the know" should be able to testify !!!

Playaboy is correct. The money people behind the barriers have the final say. We do not know the future plans for security. They may have patrol cars at the other end, and additional barriers with guards. This will also stop the undesirable foot traffic. Camino is not a highway, at any given time it can be closed and become part of Floresta. Promices do not mean anything. The President is just going back and forth as a messenger. I wonder how many Floresta residents will require I.D.s for their workers? Most of the time they hire someone and he sends someone else and so on. Most elderly people are submissive, I wonder how much will change? Regardless if Playaboy is on the beach, or living elsewhere, he does know the system.

I am sooo grateful that we have these two knowledgeable, and informed people caring about our community !!

"In the first place, I don't need to ask the residents of La Floresta what they think since the highway doesn't belong to them."

When one refers to "locals", why do you assume it means the residents of La Floresta? Locals usually pertains to the entire community, of which LF is only a part. LF is in Ajijic, which is in Chapala. So the term locals would encompass more than one fracciemento or pueblo.

if every neighborhood unilaterally took control over their own roads, would this be acceptable in America, Canada and mexico ?? answer no !!

Bad things happened and the residents screamed, "Do something!" So they did something. And now the residents scream. "Do something else!"

If I lived there and if it were my property as opposed to a rental, I would protect it. The crooks would look at it and say, "Hmm. lets go rob an easier place, like next door."

It is similar to the story about the two guys hiking and they come across a bear that begins to chase them. After 50 yards or so one sits down and changed from his hiking boots to his sneakers. The other berated him saying that the bear can still outrun him. The first guy comments that he didn't have to outrun the bear, just him.

Figure out how to make your home a more difficult target. Outrun your neighbors.

itsme wrote:" Gringal wrote:
"In the first place, I don't need to ask the residents of La Floresta what they think since the highway doesn't belong to them."

Its me wrote: "When one refers to "locals", why do you assume it means the residents of La Floresta? Locals usually pertains to the entire community, of which LF is only a part. LF is in Ajijic, which is in Chapala. So the term locals would encompass more than one fracciemento or pueblo."

That is nitpicking at its absolute finest and therefore, not worthy of a serious response.

If you want to add something intelligent to the discussion, you could try explaining the legal justification for closing a public thoroughfare, in this case......the El Camino Real.  Oh, and us village ghetto dwellers might appreciate having the Carreterra closed after dark to keep visiting thieves and brigands from the Big City out, but alas, we need to depend or other means of protecting our property since so many "whiners" would object to such a closure.     

So far, the "locals" have formed a committee to ask for official condemnation of those barriers:  this has included both expats and Mexicans.  They were successful in getting a promise to have them removed.  

gringal wrote:  Whether mordida keeps them up or they go down is a question we shall eventually see the answer to.  Or not.

There have been more than a few accusations that payoffs are involved in keeping the barriers in place. Is this an assumption or is there any evidence of this taking place? Some have even directly accused the municipal president of being bribed. My unsolicited advice is to be a little more careful with these types of accusations.