Gringos Arming Themselves

On TOB, there seems to be an increasing interest in the foreign population obtaining firearms. There is certainly a provision in Mexico's laws that allows such for protection of one's home. When I see people inquiring about purchasing a .22, it shows me just how clueless and inexperienced people are. Sure one might get lucky and make a well placed shot but chances are that all they will do is make the criminal even madder. Just what the area needs is a bunch of amateurs with guns! An enterprising Mexican businessman might just make a fortune repairing bullet wounds to the interior of homes when they start shooting at every strange noise or something imagined after they have smoked a bowl or had too much tequila!

[i]And then there will be the ones who skirt the law by carrying concealed in public. Now that is a recipe for disaster![u]

I do agree however it would be very satisfying to read about some ole gringo/gringa who caps a couple of cholos trying to rob him/her. That would certainly make them think twice........

If you decide to get a gun for protection in your home, you better be prepared to take a human life and be able to live with the consequences. Among those are facing retaliation by the dead man’s family. This is no small threat. If you kill a man, or especially a boy, you can expect big trouble from the family. You also can expect a long and expensive legal battle to prove that your action was justified.

Most ridiculous thing I ever heard of is arming onself for personal protection. What in the world are these nutcakes thinking? This isn't LA or Detroit.

Rolly is 100% correct.

I don't agree. I agree with staying alive. If that means shooting someone to save myself or a loved one, then that is what I would do, no holds barred. A person would have to do it the Mexican way - keep it quiet, and get rid of the body. That has also been discussed on the boards - albeit in a joking way....half-joking. You are assuming that the police would be called. They don't help the situation, so why call them. If someone comes into my home to hurt me, he has lost his rights. I would defend myself against him and against his family. If someone has the nerve to shoot to protect oneself and family, then that person has the nerve to continue to defend oneself from repercussions. In Mexico, that would probably mean doing it the Mexican way, not the gringo way. You take care of the situation by dumping the body in an out of the way place. Since many posters have laughed about senior citizens not being able to lift the bodies into their car trunks, there would have to be some creativity on that point. Anyhoo, it is a personal decision to own a gun and to face the consequences of using it. No one should be judging that. One thing learned from WWII and what Hitler did to people - it is better to fight than to be loaded into freight cars. You could end up dead either way, but I'd rather go out fighting. At least then I would have a chance. I don't think it is "nutcakes" at all for people to consider guns. It is just sad that people who are 60 and 70 years old or better have to consider that now, at this point in their lives, with no prior experience with a gun. I agree that inexperienced and untrained people should not have a gun in their possession for myriad reasons. But, guns may well be part of the equation as people sort through what the solutions are going to be to the violence and threats surrounding them. People are worried about home invasions, and being beaten, or worse. We never heard the outcome of the home invasion in Rancho, where the woman was thrown so violently against the toilet, her body broke the toilet. Is she hurt? Broken bones? what? What is her age? A beating like that could kill or permanently injure a person. It is truly sad that people have to be in this situation, where they must lower themselves to this denominator, because of the society around them. Well, Americans and Canadians are adaptable folks. They are trying to adapt. So, better home security is a must. Change locks, do everything on the list written by Raqueteer in "50 ways to beat the bad guys". On her list is mention of guns. If people want guns, they need training and practise....they need the legion to get involved and to set up a skeet range/shooting club. I do think that if more gringos had guns and had training and a serious social organization set up around guns, the bad guys would think twice about going into a gringo house. I believe that statistics show that the states where there are concealed weapons rights have seen crimes go down, especially against females. People are afraid right now, and have a reason and a right to be. They are looking at all possible solutions. The community is reacting to current events, and sorting through emotions, and resolutions. Let it be.

Gun would have done my neighbor who got killed absolutely no good whatsoever. Exercising common sense and realizing that trying to fight some punk one third your age who might also very well have a gun or knife is a very bad idea could have saved a life here.

Also, pretty darned hard to invade a house with really good security. And a big honery Dawg. Maybe he rents himself out.

Don't kill or get killed over your possessions. Ain't worth it.

A gun would have done no good in the home invasion either as the criminals got the victims by surprise. Good security for your house is a whole lot better than a gun.A dog is a good way to wake you up in case of an intruder. We had big dogs and no one would bother us but dogs can easily be shot or poisonned.
We now have something the size of a rat that is not a yapper but will yap if anyone tries to enter the house or go in the yard. He likes to sleep outside and would wake us up if anyone was around. We also have an alarm that will alert us if anyone is moving in the garden so there will be no surprise there. Our alarm also covers our roof and all the skylights have bars.

Maines, I think an ornery dog would help more than a hornery one..........LOL.

Na, he'd screw them to death. LOL

Sheesh, 57Chevy, ever heard of paragraphs, that is some tough reading, I'll pass, Muchas Gracias

an armed society is a polite society. (as long as your mexican neighbors dont hear the shots, call the police. somehow i dont think americans will be allowed to own guns). as for chevy's post: there are connections between this situation & pre hitler germany. its gone thru my mind for years.

Catch a clue; anyone in Mexico can own a gun for home protection. That includes you and me.

i still like the idea of a gun club, mainly 'cause i love skeet shooting. secondly, all the noise should broadcast the fact that we are improving our aim. pull. besides that, i love a lady with a remington, my wife especially. i like to call her "dead eye."
she loves that.

There are several gun clubs around Guadalajara.

There are people here whom I would trust with a gun and there are ones
that I wouldn't give em a BB gun. We all know both types. I also vote for
the 22 caliber folks to give up that idea, all you will do is piss em off unless
you are the best shot in the world and I don't think you can buy 22 hollow
points or anything to help the caliber situation. Get a big dog rather than
a 22. FOLKS think twice before getting a gun at all unless you have experience.
You are just as likely to do something with it you will regret or
supply a gun to the criminal elements. This point has nothing to do with
rights or anything but common sense. If you still want a gun and don't know
anything about it please connect yourself to a gun person and listen to
them. New gun owners without experience tend to have bad experiences.
Get help please if you still choose to own a gun legal or illigal. You need to
fire a minimum of 100 rounds to get use to a weapon . Are you going to
leave it loaded and depend on the safety? Do you want a revolver or a
clip based gun? Each have advantages and disadvantages. I do not
recommend a Glock unless you use it in a holster. They are known as toe
poppers up north from the stupid bad guys stuffing them in there pants
and having the gun go off because of the design of the gun. Good luck
and do your homework. It's not optional!!!

Z

I can only imagine the repercussions within the Mexican community if an expat were to shoot a Mexican by accident. That would be a setback of epic proportions.
Support the public officials by our efforts and with our money.
If things don't turn around to your personal satisfaction, you know the road out of town.
To think that a bunch of us old farts, arming ourselves will do anything positive is irrational thinking.

CanuckBob wrote:I do agree however it would be very satisfying to read about some ole gringo/gringa who caps a couple of cholos trying to rob him/her. That would certainly make them think twice........

Bob, I can tell you are one of the younger ones on this forum. Most of us can't see straight - forget about shooting straight. I have a pepper spray in my night stand - it's long range and the police use it in certain US cities. It occurred to me that without my glasses I may be able to get the thing in my hand but can I see without my glasses to spray anyone? With a gun I'm afraid I might shoot my dog by mistake:-(

With the popularity of dogs and cats within the foreign community, would there be a rash of owners being shot by their pets?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/10/9356615-another-dog-shoots-hunter-this-time-in-florida
http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-news/2011/dec/10/1/hunter-shot-as-excited-dog-sets-off-rifle-in-pasco-ar-333319/

I can just see a new industry developing: Gun Safety for Pets!

Nothing bigger than .38 Spl. is legal. That rules out the Glock.

Article 11 of Ley Federal de Armas de Fuego y Explosivos lists prohibited "military firearms" in México. They include:
> full-auto and semi-auto handguns larger than 380
> revolver .357 Magnum or larger
> rifles larger than .30 caliber
> shotguns larger than 12ga or with a barrel shorter than 25".

Allowed hand gun calibers are .380 auto, .38 and .22.
Allowed long guns: rifles no larger the 30 caliber; shotguns 12, 20 and 410 with barrels longer than 25”

There is more information on gun ownership here http://rollybrook.com/guns.htm

Interestingly, the .223 military caliber used in the AR-15, M-14, and Ruger Mini-14 is legal.

Mexico has reason to resent Gringos with guns. I received an email yesterday from a resident who has lived here for some years who was stopped and searched thoroughly for the first time since moving here from Texas. The police were looking for a concealed weapon ( he did not have one, and there was certainly no probably cause.)
I am concerned about an eventual backlash from the local police as a result of the foreign community trying to take the running of things into our own hands. I suspect there is a limit as to how far we can be indulged before the implied disdain of their work creates ill feeling.

There is no probable cause needed to search you for weapons violations.
Also what are you going to do? Not cooperate and have a form Constitutional Writ (Amparo) in your pocket and have the police wait while you file it in federal court? Let the cops search, maybe it will deter people from carrying weapons and catch the ones that do, thereby reducing violent crime.

That's the point I'm making Intercasa. The talk of gun ownership isn't limited to this forum, it's reaching a tipping point. Who needs another reason to get stopped and searched? Right now the police at least have to pretend you ran a light.

mkay wrote:Mexico has reason to resent Gringos with guns. I received an email yesterday from a resident who has lived here for some years who was stopped and searched thoroughly for the first time since moving here from Texas. The police were looking for a concealed weapon ( he did not have one, and there was certainly no probably cause.)
I am concerned about an eventual backlash from the local police as a result of the foreign community trying to take the running of things into our own hands. I suspect there is a limit as to how far we can be indulged before the implied disdain of their work creates ill feeling.

What are you talking about?
What reason does "Mexico" have to resent gringos with guns?
WHO in the foreign community is trying to take "the running of things into our own hands?"
HUH?