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Hypothetical question on gun ownership in Mex

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Post by gringoman Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:18 pm

OK, owning a gun in Mex is illegal-right? So if I get one (easily bought here-BTW ) and a perp breaks into our home and threatens us with physical violence and I shoot him or them, either wounding them or (God forbid) kill them, will I go to prison? The violence here is making me a bit nervous, and just the thought of having some defense makes me feel better. I had a .45 in my nightstand back in the states and there would have been no problem there, but I'm not sure about here. The house is well protected with iron bars, etc., but you never know. I never feel afraid here during the day or when we are out and about, but sleepytime is a bit different.

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Post by Intercasa Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:43 pm

OK, here is the scoop on gun ownership as I understand it and have had it confirmed:

The constitution guarantees the right to own arms for security and defense that aren't prohibited by law for use exclusively by the military (Article 10)

ARTICULO 10. LOS HABITANTES DE LOS ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS TIENEN DERECHO A POSEER ARMAS EN SU DOMICILIO, PARA SU SEGURIDAD Y LEGITIMA DEFENSA, CON EXCEPCION DE LAS PROHIBIDAS POR LA LEY FEDERAL Y DE LAS RESERVADAS PARA EL USO EXCLUSIVO DEL EJERCITO, ARMADA, FUERZA AEREA Y GUARDIA NACIONAL. LA LEY FEDERAL DETERMINARA LOS CASOS, CONDICIONES, REQUISITOS Y LUGARES EN QUE SE PODRA AUTORIZAR A LOS HABITANTES LA PORTACION DE ARMAS.

There is only one gun store in the country in Mexico City, you can legally buy guns there and get a 1 day transport permit to get them back to your home.

All guns must be registered with the Secretary of defense.

Certain calibers are reserved for military / police use, these are anything larger than .38, so prohibited calibers are: 38 +p, 38 super, 9mm, .40, .45, .357 mag.

Allowed calibers are .380 auto, .38 and .22.

The right to keep arms is not the right to transport them outside your home. This is a crime and you can only get permission if you are a member of a gun club or are a hunter with proper permission and even then there are restrictions on days and places you can transport.

There is more and maybe I'll post it later.
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Post by gringomojado Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:53 pm

Also on the prohibited list of "national calibers" are certain rifle cartridges:

5.56mm (AR 15/M16)

7.6mm short (AK47)

3006-30 MI ( Mi Garand)

7.62 NATO (M14)

7mm Mauser.

A law-abiding citizen doesn't want to get caught with prohibited arms or ammo. 1 cartridge can get you into a world of hurt.

gm
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Post by David Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:10 pm

You may not own a .45 but you can own something smaller, e.g. 38 Spl. You MUST register it with the Defense Dept. (Army), there's a base just north of Guad. It's a straightforward process. You may acquire the firearm from a private party if you wish. You do not need to provide purchase details when your register the weapon.
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Post by gringoman Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:48 am

If I buy from an individual locally, I could not legally carry the gun to the Army base in Guad. Do you know what info they require?

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Post by Intercasa Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:56 am

The only information you have for a gun is serial number, manufacturer and caliber.

Here is the list of requirements to register a gun:

1.
Presentarse en el modulo del registro federal de armas de fuego mas cercano a su domicilio, con el arma descargada y envuelta o en su funda.
2.
Entregar original y copia de identificación vigente con fotografía, comprobante de domicilio, C.U.R.P. y la credencial de afiliación al club de caza. (en caso de ser cazador).
3.
Realizar un pago en cualquier institución bancaria por $35.00 (treinta y cinco pesos 00/100.), mediante el esquema de pago e5cinco, asentando la clave de referencia 034001132 y clave de dependencia 00275220000000.


Gun FAQ page from SEDENA

http://www.sedena.gob.mx/index.php/tramites-y-servicios/registro-federal-de-armas-de-fuego/preguntas-frecuentes
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Post by David Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:00 am

gringoman wrote:If I buy from an individual locally, I could not legally carry the gun to the Army base in Guad. Do you know what info they require?

You must first get the registration form and complete it. Also, copies of your immigration document, passport, CURP, and proof of address. When you have all of this you may then transport the weapon to the Army base for registration. The registration document is your permit to transport it there.
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Post by johninajijic Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:12 am

Intercasa - You should tell him the law regarding firing his gun at an intruder into his home.

You had better learn how to use the gun and be accurate or the perp will take it away from you and you'll get shot. The next thing is "Do you have the balls to shoot to kill him?" I doubt few of us do.

Lakeside is not so bad that any homeowner needs a gun. When it gets that bad, it's time to move back NOB.
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Post by Intercasa Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:33 am

If It was me, I'd shoot to kill and dump the body. No lose family members wanting to kill you for taking away from their their drugged out, tattoos honor student who would have been a Rhodes Scholar if not for you killing him.

You have the right to self defense but it is the family or friends of the perp I'd be more concerned about. Shoot and then wait. If no police come or nobody looks for the guy then at night make a trash run.
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Post by Rolly Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:26 pm

David wrote: You must first get the registration form and complete it. Also, copies of your immigration document, passport, CURP, and proof of address. When you have all of this you may then transport the weapon to the Army base for registration. The registration document is your permit to transport it there.
Where would one get the registration form?

When you say "immigration document," I assume you mean Inmigrado. I believe that is what the law requires. An FM2 or 3 is not acceptable. Right?
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Post by David Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:53 pm

An FM2/3 IS acceptable. An FMM is not. You get the registration form from a gun club or the Army.
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Post by Rolly Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:24 pm

David wrote:An FM2/3 IS acceptable.
I find that puzzling because Mexican federal law regarding firearms and explosives (Ley Federal de Armas de Fuego y Explosivos) says:

Artículo 27. A los extranjeros sólo se les podrá autorizar la portación de armas cuando, además de satisfacer los requisitos señalados en el artículo anterior, acrediten su calidad de inmigrados, salvo el caso del permiso de licencia temporal para turistas con fines deportivos.

Article 27. The right to bear arms will only be authorized for foreigners when, in addition to satisfying the requirements indicated in the previous article, they accredit their status of Inmigrados except in the case of temporary license permits for tourists with sports-related intentions.
----------------------------
Have you had actual, personal experience regestering a pistol with an FM#?
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Post by David Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:40 pm

Yes Rolly I have and I have an FM3. I understand that a change was made, perhaps as long a two years ago. I asked my Abogado in 2006 if I could own a gun and he said no. Then last year I learned from a member of Guadalajara Gun Club that it was now possible for an FM3 holder to own one. I went thru the registration process about 6 months ago at the Army base.
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Post by Rolly Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:51 pm

Thanks a million!
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Post by gringomojado Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:30 pm

Intercasa wrote:If It was me, I'd shoot to kill and dump the body. No lose family members wanting to kill you for taking away from their their drugged out, tattoos honor student who would have been a Rhodes Scholar if not for you killing him.

You have the right to self defense but it is the family or friends of the perp I'd be more concerned about. Shoot and then wait. If no police come or nobody looks for the guy then at night make a trash run.

If you are old and or feeble, then dismember the body into manageable pieces and make the run. If you have dogs or pigs, no runs needed!

Better yet, don't live in fear.

gm
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Post by DaveP Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:31 am

David wrote:Yes Rolly I have and I have an FM3. I understand that a change was made, perhaps as long a two years ago. I asked my Abogado in 2006 if I could own a gun and he said no. Then last year I learned from a member of Guadalajara Gun Club that it was now possible for an FM3 holder to own one. I went thru the registration process about 6 months ago at the Army base.

What happens if you show up at the border with a gun and all paperwork is completed? Can you import it or is a go to jail offence?

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Post by David Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:39 am

There are ways to temporarily import a weapon for a hunting outing or a shooting competition. In those cases there is special paperwork provided by the outfitter or sponsoring club.
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Post by DaveP Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:49 am

David wrote:There are ways to temporarily import a weapon for a hunting outing or a shooting competition. In those cases there is special paperwork provided by the outfitter or sponsoring club.

I realize that David, maybe I was not specific enough. I am talking about a FM2/FM3 holder returning from the USA, with a gun. Can it be done that way if you have the necessary paperwork with you?

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Post by David Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:01 am

Unfortunately no. You are not allowed to import a firearm or ammo.
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Post by Intercasa Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:08 am

I'm going to look into ways to import my guns, not all just a few like .380 auto, .22 and maybe my .12ga sporting clays gun, an a Ruger .10-22.

I'm sure there is a procedure as well as one to export them from the US.
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Post by Intercasa Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:11 am

Rolly, the code section you mentioned had the word "portacion" and this makes all the difference. This word refers to the "carrying" of guns so this is quite different than keeping at home or merely transporting. They are much stricter with the ability to carry a gun rather than just keep one at home or transport it to a gun club or to hunt.
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Post by elgringo Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:29 am

is there a place to buy ammo legally or do you have to buy it at the above mentioned store? Also I don't see why it would be difficult for someone to shoot a perp that has broken into your home. Maybe it is a Texas mentality we have about defending ourself
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Post by Demonio Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:57 am

Intercasa wrote:If It was me, I'd shoot to kill and dump the body. No lose family members wanting to kill you for taking away from their their drugged out, tattoos honor student who would have been a Rhodes Scholar if not for you killing him.

You have the right to self defense but it is the family or friends of the perp I'd be more concerned about. Shoot and then wait. If no police come or nobody looks for the guy then at night make a trash run.
Spencer, I hope you're kidding. If so, you should be more responsible since some dimwit may take that nonsense seriously and possibly be charged with murder when he/she didn't commit a crime. If you weren't kidding, you need to seek professional help asap.
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Post by martygraw Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:28 pm

Got to agree with the above. I see no reason to import the American gun culture south.
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Post by Intercasa Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:39 pm

I'm about 50% serious, after hearing some tales about what happens after shooting somebody, you really wouldn't want to go there but sometimes might have to. There is no right answer and depends on circumstances.
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