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Federal Zone lake side?

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CanuckBob
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Federal Zone lake side? Empty Federal Zone lake side?

Post by tictoc Mon May 25, 2015 11:27 am

So I'm looking at properties and I see a property that says it has a Federal Zone Permit. I was not aware that there was any federal zone lake side. I did some searching but found nothing that directly apply to a freshwater lagoon that is not communicated directly or indirectly with the sea. (is Chapala indirectly communicated...?)
So does anyone have any good information on the federal zone lake side?

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Post by RVGRINGO Mon May 25, 2015 12:28 pm

It is not a federal restricted zone, as you have apparently interpreted it. The zone referred to is an adjoining bit of lakefront shoreline, which is controlled by the federal government. The “permit“ allows the adjoining property owner use of that land/beach area under certain conditions.

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Post by tictoc Mon May 25, 2015 12:35 pm

RVGRINGO wrote:It is not a federal restricted zone, as you have apparently interpreted it. The zone referred to is an adjoining bit of lakefront shoreline, which is controlled by the federal government. The “permit“ allows the adjoining property owner use of that land/beach area under certain conditions.
That makes sense, I was confused. I guess I still am a little. The property is approximately 175m from what I would call the shoreline. Can you tell me any of the particulars on the "zone" and how it affects property ownership and/or  use?

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Post by RVGRINGO Mon May 25, 2015 12:46 pm

You will not own the ‘permitted zone‘, but simply have the right to use it. Note that the lake rises and falls, so it will be quite variable. Enforcement is very difficult and conflicts are common.

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Post by tictoc Mon May 25, 2015 1:06 pm

Again, my confusion. I'm sure it is just a Mexican thing. There are at-least 7 homes between this one and the closest part of the lake. With what I know about the lake (not much I'm sure), I don't see were the lake was ever this high. Does any one have a map (or link) of this "federal zone"?

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Post by RVGRINGO Mon May 25, 2015 1:14 pm

Ha! Maybe those seven homes have been built illegally upon the federal zone. In some spots, illegal fill has been trucked in for months to create land on the federal zone. Enforcement attempts may fail if there is enough “grease“.
If you have doubts and the answers make no sense, it is best to look elsewhere. You are not in Kansas any more.

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Post by tictoc Mon May 25, 2015 1:30 pm

RVGRINGO wrote:Ha!  Maybe those seven homes have been built illegally upon the federal zone. In some spots, illegal fill has been trucked in for months to create land on the federal zone.  Enforcement attempts may fail if there is enough “grease“.  
If you have doubts and the answers make no sense, it is best to look elsewhere. You are not in Kansas any more.
Yes thus the reasons for my question here. I haven't asked other places yet. Also, when I say 7 homes, that is directly between (EG apx. 175 meters). I would say there are at least a hundred in the "zone" south of the home...

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Post by RVGRINGO Mon May 25, 2015 1:34 pm

Are you talking about Riberas del Pilar? Once more: “elsewhere“.

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Post by tictoc Mon May 25, 2015 1:37 pm

No, this is "west Ajijic". One block from the carrtra (sp?)

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Post by RVGRINGO Mon May 25, 2015 1:42 pm

I think I know the area you are talking about. I don‘t know any details but would not buy there. We did buy on Ocampo, #87, back in 2001 and sold it in 2004 in favor of a home we bought in Chapala, where we lived until last October, 2014.

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Post by tictoc Mon May 25, 2015 1:47 pm

Ocampo would be in the "zone" by my account. Did you have a "Federal Zone Permit" on the property?

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Post by CanuckBob Mon May 25, 2015 3:31 pm

I wouldn't get involved with any property that had government permits or ejido issues anywhere near it.
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Post by gringal Mon May 25, 2015 3:36 pm

CanuckBob wrote:I wouldn't get involved with any property that had government permits or ejido issues anywhere near it.

Not only do people have never ending frustration on that route, but it can get worse.  When the lake went WAY down some years ago and the lake bed was used for agriculture, people started squatting on the land in front of what used to be "waterfront" properties.  CBOB has this one right.

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Post by RVGRINGO Mon May 25, 2015 4:33 pm

tictoc wrote:Ocampo would be in the "zone" by my account. Did you have a  "Federal Zone Permit" on the property?

Your “account“ is in error.

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Post by slainte39 Mon May 25, 2015 5:04 pm

In the perfect world, there is an established shoreline of the lake contingent upon a certain level of the lake. This does nor vary, and private property (in the perfect world) should be begin so many meters, I can't remember how many, 15 maybe, beyond that.
The Federal Zone is contiguous to the private land and a permit may be given for use as gardens, agriculture, or uses like that, but can not have any permanent structures built on the Zone.
On rare occasions, legal permission has been given for construction, such as the restaurant on the Malecon in Ajijic.  Anything else is illegal and encroachment, which happens all the time.
On occasions, permission is not given because it would interfere with public projects, such as malecones, muelles, etc., etc.
The Comision Nacional de Agua (CNA) office in Guadalajara controls this activity, has maps that define the Federal  Zone, and issues the permits for same.  There is a yearly fee for the permit. Their office used to be on Federalismo but I am not sure about now as I haven't been there for years.
This is just to give you an idea.

Also so many meters on either side of an arroyo may also be Federal Zone.
This has nothing to do with private ownership of private land by either Mexican nationals or foreigners, and both are permitted the use of the Federal Zones equally, contiguous to their private property.
Does the property you are looking at, abut an arroyo?

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Post by slainte39 Mon May 25, 2015 6:02 pm

A few years ago, Lety's restaurant in San Antonio on the Carretera, built on the Federal Zone of an arroyo without a permit, was torn down by the government.
The neighbors complained and pressed the issue.  They were allowed to remove all that was movable before the premises were razed.

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Post by tictoc Mon May 25, 2015 9:11 pm

CanuckBob wrote:I wouldn't get involved with any property that had government permits or ejido issues anywhere near it.
thanks, I am of the same frame of mind. My thoughts are larger than this one property. If this property that is so far from the lake has this restriction than I would think that others might. And if I were to buy one that wasn't declared and i found out later I would be upset. Thus me asking if anyone had a map of this "zone". So again, if anyone has the information I am looking for, I would be great full if you were to offer it up.

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Post by Ezzie Mon May 25, 2015 10:43 pm

You should be able to obtain map information from CNA (Comision National de Agua) in Guadalajara.

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Post by CanuckBob Mon May 25, 2015 11:17 pm

Or simply ensure you get a good notario to complete your real estate transaction if and when you ever purchase a property.
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Post by Whitey Disley Mon May 25, 2015 11:38 pm

Ezzie wrote:You should be able to obtain map information from CNA (Comision National de Agua) in Guadalajara.

SEMARNAT would be the place to seek information.

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Post by Whitey Disley Mon May 25, 2015 11:39 pm

slainte39 wrote:In the perfect world, there is an established shoreline of the lake contingent upon a certain level of the lake. This does nor vary, and private property (in the perfect world) should be begin so many meters, I can't remember how many, 15 maybe, beyond that.
The Federal Zone is contiguous to the private land and a permit may be given for use as gardens, agriculture, or uses like that, but can not have any permanent structures built on the Zone.
On rare occasions, legal permission has been given for construction, such as the restaurant on the Malecon in Ajijic.  Anything else is illegal and encroachment, which happens all the time.
On occasions, permission is not given because it would interfere with public projects, such as malecones, muelles, etc., etc.
The Comision Nacional de Agua (CNA) office in Guadalajara controls this activity, has maps that define the Federal  Zone, and issues the permits for same.  There is a yearly fee for the permit. Their office used to be on Federalismo but I am not sure about now as I haven't been there for years.
This is just to give you an idea.

Also so many meters on either side of an arroyo may also be Federal Zone.
This has nothing to do with private ownership of private land by either Mexican nationals or foreigners, and both are permitted the use of the Federal Zones equally, contiguous to their private property.
Does the property you are looking at, abut an arroyo?

Permanent structures are allowed in many cases. You must hold the lease and then apply for permission to build on it.

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Post by slainte39 Mon May 25, 2015 11:49 pm

Whitey Disley wrote:
Ezzie wrote:You should be able to obtain map information from CNA (Comision National de Agua) in Guadalajara.

SEMARNAT would be the place to seek information.
Have they replaced CNA as the governing body? When I obtained a federal zone permit, it was through the  CNA, but that was in the 1980's.
Maybe they have loosened up on the construction permission. They used to be pretty tough, but people did it anyway.
Who do you get permission from?...SEMARNAT, Obras Publicas, CNA, or all of the above?

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