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Prime rib

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CheenaGringo
oncesubtle
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David
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Post by ferret Thu May 12, 2011 10:36 am

You're not boring the hell out of me.
Solovino, that was a good link that you posted but you didn't read your own information well.
1) Some variants of Eschericia coli MAY produce a heat resistant toxin.
2) Any time a heat resistant spore is present it can reproduce the bacteria and its corresponding toxin whenever it feels the conditions are right.

Don't be paranoid but do be safe...and I think I'll eat at GBATRUCKS and not at Bob's 'cuz I agree with him (and Solovino) about the sitting at room temperature.


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Post by GBATRUCKS Thu May 12, 2011 10:56 am

Years ago, after reaching corporate burnout, I ran off to Ruidoso, New Mexico & bought Sonny's Bar-b-que. During the race season, we would smoke-BBQ 10-12 80 lb. cases of brisket a week. We catered parties for Tx Gov. John Connally, Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes, Joe McDermott, etc. Slow cooking brisket for 18 hours required a lot of attention to temperature, thus my caution and "paranoia" In 7 years, no one ever complained of food poisoning....paranoid?... better safe than sorry I think... I sometimes think I would like to open a Texas Bar-B-Q honky-tonk here, but then the wife reminds me that I better like being single, so I'll pass.
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Post by oncesubtle Thu May 12, 2011 12:02 pm

I'm not bored either and would be delighted to sit at either of your tables. Here's why, and not that I haven't forgotten more than I remember, but I was a licensed food handling instructor in the good old days so maybe I can offer an insight. What this discussion comes down to is a chunk of fresh beef being brought up to room temp., in what, 2 hours before cooking? To generate enough bacteria/toxins to sicken someone there are 4 'must' conditions: Time, temperature, moisture and protein. And two hours just isn't enough time. Briefly and as an example, think of a tuna sandwich with mayo, you know, the kind you found in your lunch box when you were in grade school. Mom made it at 7, you ate it at noon and no problemo after 5 hours of being un-refrigerated.

So Bob, I be expectin' a front row seat and GBA, as you know you can never be too careful. (Jonesen for an invite here Rolling Eyes )
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Post by CheenaGringo Thu May 12, 2011 12:03 pm

I have been served and prepared prime rib in the fashion described by Bob for over 40 years without any known problems with toxins. My recipe doesn't call for water in the pan but every other step is the same. It is certainly your option to question this method but we will be dining on the best tasting prime rib, I have ever enjoyed!

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Post by GBATRUCKS Thu May 12, 2011 1:34 pm

Oncesubtle: "And two hours just isn't enough time. "..No problem there with a large, properly handled piece of beef...That's what the USDA suggests, subject to ambient temperature. But Bob talks about taking the roast out of the fridge for several hours to warm up to room temp. You'll note in my original post I referenced the ability of the oven to hold heat....I'm thinking about these older Mabe ovens here in Mx that are really crap, and do not hold heat at all once the source is cut off. Cooking with them can really be a challenge!
Bob's method, which I understand hasn't caused a problem, still makes me concerned: Cooking at a high temp, then killing the heat for several hours, I'm wondering what happens to the internal temperature of the meat during that resting period, especially if cooking with one of these Mexican ovens. No matter what kind of oven I have, I might REDUCE the heat substantially to prolong the slow-cooking process but also to make sure the temperature is always on the upswing and not declining, and I would not kill the heat source for the length of time Bob recommends, without monitoring it with a remote probe thermometer.
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Post by ferret Thu May 12, 2011 1:46 pm

A very interesting thread indeed...

Slight switch in direction but related...what is your preferred cutting board surface and why?
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Post by GBATRUCKS Thu May 12, 2011 2:12 pm

I've always preferred synthetic for ease of cleaning...however the jury is still out:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Cutting_Boards_and_Food_Safety/index.asp
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Post by oncesubtle Thu May 12, 2011 2:20 pm

Well GBA, with those possible variables coming into play I'd be concerned too but harken back to the tuna sammie w/mayo example for perspective and trust yours and Bob's common sense and knowledge to rule the day.

So how about a cook off when Bob moves here? (Bob?) I got 500 pesos for the winner and will pony up another 400 for two seats and will refund the pesos to anyone who croaks.

Cutting boards? The health issue would be in their through cleaning before after use. Hand washing is the big one in food services with no open wounds, scrapes etc..

BTW, does anyone know where a feller can get a prime rib dinner lakeside, TONIGHT!?!
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Post by GBATRUCKS Thu May 12, 2011 2:39 pm

Funny you should suggest that!...Bob & I have just been discussing such an event by E-mail . My suggestion is we old farts get together at the Jocotepec malicon/park which is in the process of making massive improvements including many new bbq stations. I'd suggest a pork rib cookoff, as the roasts here (beef or pork) have so little marbeling as to make it tough to render a decent slow-cooked bar-b-que brisket or pork shoulder ..The ribs here, however, are great and affordable...So we could all get together, cook our goodies, drink major quantities of liquid refreshments, talk dirty, google babes, get hound dawg here to insult us, and discuss the establishment of a BBQ cookoff similar to the Ajijic People's Choice Chili Cookoff.

Re: Prime Rib at Lakeside?..DAMIFINO
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Post by oncesubtle Thu May 12, 2011 3:23 pm

Oh GBATRUCKS, may I call you my new and dear friend? You are talking my idea of a perfect afternoon. Please color us in, happy to chip in and if I can find some dry ice will be packin' the popcicles in.

Oh, and un gracias grande to ya both! mariachi
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Post by simpsca Thu May 12, 2011 4:16 pm

Solovino wrote:
David wrote:Gracias!

It is Carnes Finas de Sonora. They have several locations but I usually visit the main store on Vallarta. It is east of the Patria overpass a couple of blocks on the south side of Vallarta. You must take the lateral not the main Vallarta lanes.

What did you ask for? It's probably not called prime rib here.
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Post by ferret Thu May 12, 2011 5:00 pm

GBATRUCKS wrote:I've always preferred synthetic for ease of cleaning...however the jury is still out:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Cutting_Boards_and_Food_Safety/index.asp

I always use a hardwood (maple) cutting board. In the mid seventies, when the plastic boards came out, they were touted as better than wood. A study was done then and determined the same info as the link I'm providing...it was an eye opener to many. I was working in microbiology at Scarborough General Hospital at the time.

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm
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Post by espíritu del lago Thu May 12, 2011 6:05 pm

carne para asar de costilla primera, is prime rib, there are many different ways to say it. Tony's can get it for you he has it for holidays so you may want to ask about a special order.
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Post by Solovino Thu May 12, 2011 6:37 pm

Wood. I hate plastic and the reports of bacteria residing in the pores of the wood of cutting boards was debunked long ago.

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Post by Solovino Thu May 12, 2011 6:52 pm

simpsca wrote:
Solovino wrote:
David wrote:Gracias!

It is Carnes Finas de Sonora. They have several locations but I usually visit the main store on Vallarta. It is east of the Patria overpass a couple of blocks on the south side of Vallarta. You must take the lateral not the main Vallarta lanes.

What did you ask for? It's probably not called prime rib here.

They have it listed as "prime rib" on their product board!! They also use the English terms for some of the other cuts such as ribeye, porterhouse, sirloin etc. So those who don't speak Spanish won't have any problem ordering. Over the years we have purchased several other cuts and they have all been top quality but this was the first time we had taken home a prime rib roast. Might make it a once in a year thing on someone's birthday or a holiday meal.

On our family's Mother's Day celebration for mi santa suegra we had their ribeyes on the grill and they were very good. They will slice them as thick or thin as you like.

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Post by CanuckBob Thu May 12, 2011 7:00 pm

I prefer wood cutting boards and we will most certainly be getting together for a cooking extravaganza. I'm even going to use a meat thermometer so everyone will feel OK with things. In fact maybe turning the oven down to 150 instead of off will produce the same effect however I suspect it may be a bit quicker and not quite as tender.

As for the room temperature thing......any good chef will tell you to do this. Most do. I know a few of them. And your right Bob it is never more than a couple of hours. I always take my steaks out ahead of time.
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Post by CheenaGringo Thu May 12, 2011 8:17 pm

When my mother first learned of this recipe, she would tape the oven door shut and I thought she was crazy. Later in life, I was preparing same and someone smelled the prime rib in the oven and decided to see what smelled so good. Opening the un-taped door ruined that one.

There is an old saying about not fixing what isn't broke - I will continue to follow the original recipe to the t and the heck with any ideas of modifying to satisfy those worried about mysterious toxins! More for me if they don't wish to eat it!

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Post by simpsca Thu May 12, 2011 11:02 pm

Speaking of cutting boards, I changed to plastic years ago due to the bacteria scare. And then I was watching a Rachael Ray show and she used a wooden cutting board and said she cleans it with rock salt like her dad did. Don't know if that really does anything, but now I'm looking for a wood cutting board.

If anyone sees any in a store out there please let me know.

Carolyn
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Post by espíritu del lago Fri May 13, 2011 7:15 am

10 million Mexican's can't be wrong. Note how many you see in daily use by street venders.
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Post by simpsca Fri May 13, 2011 8:43 am

Oncesubtle,

Try calling Hole in One, I hear they have good prime rib at times. I don't have the phone number but if someone posts it you could see what day. then you do't have to drive into Guadalajara to buy one.

Whenever I go to Houston, I but the best prime rib I can find and my brother and I really enjoy.

PS it's a bad thing to have late night discussions about really good food because arount 10 to 11 pm is when I get the munchies. I don't eat at that hour but it makes it difficult when someone is describing cream-sicles, prime rib, and corned beef sandwiches! Basta
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Post by GBATRUCKS Fri May 13, 2011 9:41 am

oncesubtle wrote:Oh GBATRUCKS, may I call you my new and dear friend? You are talking my idea of a perfect afternoon. Please color us in, happy to chip in and if I can find some dry ice will be packin' the popcicles in.

Oh, and un gracias grande to ya both! mariachi

OK...BFF IT IS!. I understand C-Bob won't make the move SOB until about this time next year, so we may have to do a pre-function prior to his arrival, unless he's planning a visit sometime prior?? Anyway, they are really moving the dirt & pouring the man hours into the Joco park....still awating the grass. I'll keep everybody posted & when it's finished, we can have a meet & greet & rib cookin'. Beer
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Post by Carry Bean Fri May 13, 2011 10:06 am

I've been trying to find a large wood cutting board, too. Anybody seen one around? I got a smaller one in Tonala a while back but didn't see any bigger ones.

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Post by GBATRUCKS Fri May 13, 2011 10:39 am

Wood
Wood has some advantages over plastic in that it is somewhat self healing; shallow cuts in the wood will close up on their own. Wood also has natural anti-septic properties.[1]

Hardwoods with tightly grained wood and small pores are best for wooden cutting boards. Good hardness and tight grain helps reduce scoring of the cutting surface and absorption of liquid and dirt into the surface. Red oak for example, even though a hardwood, has large pores so it retains dirt, even after washing, making it a poor choice for cutting board material.

Teak's tight grains and natural coloration make it a highly attractive cutting board material, both for aesthetic and durability purposes. The natural oils in this tropical hardwood allow it to repel moisture, warping and microbes.

Wood boards need to be cared-for with mineral oil to avoid warping, and should not be left in puddles of liquid.

Care must be taken when selecting wood, especially tropical hardwood, for use as a cutting board as some species contain toxins or allergens.

Although technically a grass, laminated strips of bamboo also make an attractive and durable cutting board material.

BTW: A GREAT CLEANING PRODUCT HERE IS AXION...IT'S LIKE THE COMET OR DUTCH CLEANSER THAT SUCKS UP HUMIDITY AND GETS LUMPY, EXCEPT THIS STUFF IS IN PASTE FORM...GREAT FOR CLEANING SYNTHETIC BOARDS OR ANYTHING YOU MIGHT USE A DRY CLEANSER ON.
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Post by simpsca Fri May 13, 2011 12:57 pm

Good idea - have a dry run before the boss gets here so we get it right.
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Post by GBATRUCKS Fri May 13, 2011 1:43 pm

THE BOSS? Is Bruce Springsteen coming? I'm sure you can't be refering to that Canadian who thinks he's gonna teach us South Westerners how to do BBQ! Beer
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Post by simpsca Fri May 13, 2011 2:56 pm

Eh? You never know, they may not know how to BBQ up there but I'll bet they sure know a good rib when they have one.

The eh was for Bob, I'm not Canadian Beer
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