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Very sobering report

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Post by Jreboll Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:42 am

https://youtu.be/JT_Q3UvO3ZU

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Post by ferret Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:40 am

I thought that was very well done. So what is it about drugs that make the people NOB such a lucrative market? I don't understand the appeal of either alcohol or hard drugs. Really. I don't.
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Post by gringal Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:02 am

ferret wrote:I thought that was very well done. So what is it about drugs that make the people NOB such a lucrative market? I don't understand the appeal of either alcohol or hard drugs. Really. I don't.

Perhaps part of it is that the reality of people's lives doesn't live up to the ones shown on TV and other media. Personally, I agree with you and others who have shunned the drugs/excessive alcohol. I do like my evening glass of wine, though. Very sobering report 1f60e

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Post by Carry Bean Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:12 am

I celebrated 49 years of continuous sobriety Monday. Sure beats the hell drinking brought me but thankfully drugs never appealed to me & I don’t understand the draw of drugs. The excitement of it? The clandestine nature? No such thing as social drinking for me or any other alkie but I don’t disapprove of social drinking for those without a problem & I served it when entertaining at night. To me, drugs are just pointless.

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Post by mudgirl Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:50 am

Carry Bean wrote: drugs never appealed to me & I don’t understand the draw of drugs.  The excitement of it? The clandestine nature?

Neither. Killing pain and hopelessness. Most hard drug addicts have a history of physical, sexual and/or emotional abuse, from an early age. There is a series of quite intense, fascinating videos called Soft White Underbelly, where the videographer interviews drug addicts in the US. Set against a plain black background in a studio, sitting on a stool, these people talk about their lives and how they got where they are. Many are quite articulate and not stupid. The things these people have been through is tragic.

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Post by BisbeeGal Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:51 am

In a past life I lived near a small time dealer (in US).  With few exceptions his clients were in some way physically disabled and were buying drugs for pain relief.  

That's how the whole oxycontin crap started and then mushroomed.  At some point when oxy wasn't available to them they migrated to other drugs for pain relief, including some imported to the US by MX cartels.  

If you've never seen the series Dopesick, you should watch it.  Not all drug users are of questionable character nor did all start out wanting a cheap thrill.

 https://www.npr.org/2021/10/14/1045904277/hulu-dopesick-michael-keaton-purdue-pharma-opioid

Michael Keaton the lead actor in it and the series won awards ranging from Emmys to a Peabody to SAG awards.  It is probably the best quality television I've seen in several years.
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Post by ferret Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:12 pm

Thanks Mudgirl and BisbeeGal. Okay then, doesn't that make a very large comment about the state of health care in the U.S. ? And I am specifying both body and mind care here.
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Post by Carry Bean Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:17 pm

Actually, my drinking started when living in California during the ‘60’s (Summer of Love) and I had a history of abuse but booze was legal and drugs weren’t so that Catholic upbringing must have had some influence as I was always afraid of arrest. Of course one can be as big an idiot on booze as on drugs but there just always seemed to be something unsavory about drugs.
With friends at the time who indulged in drugs part of the allure was the furtiveness and drama of getting hold of the crap seemingly. Sort of an insider thing. Most can get by with the occasional trip down the druggy trail but that doesn’t seem to last long. They either stopped or went down the rabbit hole. It never stayed “cool” very long. I never heard of a social heroin user.
I was lucky that I stuck with booze. As hard as it was to kick, combining it with drugs as many do multiplies the difficulty 10 fold. But both are fatal. When I went to my first meeting I was at the point of DT’s. Couldn’t hold a cup and had to concentrate to not vibrate off my chair. There was a guy about my age (29) there for his first meeting too. He was Mr. Preppy. Khaki pants, madras shirt, tortoise shell glasses. We both showed up the following week. The 3rd week he wasn’t there. Found out later he drank again, choked on his own vomit & died.

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Post by Mexicoafterlife Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:21 pm

gringal wrote:
ferret wrote:I thought that was very well done. So what is it about drugs that make the people NOB such a lucrative market? I don't understand the appeal of either alcohol or hard drugs. Really. I don't.

Perhaps part of it is that the reality of people's lives doesn't live up to the ones shown on TV and other media. Personally, I agree with you and others who have shunned the drugs/excessive alcohol. I do like my evening glass of wine, though. Very sobering report 1f60e

Your nailed it. The whole look at how great my life is social media and "reality" TV proves what you said. But they never show the bad ever and these people who watch think that there life needs to be perfect too.

And for some a glass of wine or a margarita once in a while is just fine.

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Post by mudgirl Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:21 pm

Yes, not just health care but listening to some of these people's stories it is obvious that the Child Services depts. aren't doing their job. Kids who were sexually abused by family members from the age of 5, neglected, etc. There are a shocking number of kids killed or left to die in the US in homes where Child Protection services were called by concerned family members or neighbors, there were "home checks" done, and the workers supposedly didn't find any reason to remove the kids from the home.

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Post by BisbeeGal Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:24 pm

In the US Big Pharma has gotten away with murder, literally.  Big contributors to politicians (both sides) kept them protected for a long time.  But their charm has worn off and at least the Dems are fighting them on costs.

Look at the recent example of insulin...they've been way overcharging for years.  In February Biden told the companies he's going to go after them.  Shazaam!  On March 1st Eli Lily lowered insulin by 70% and now others have followed suit.  

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/09/biden-proposal-to-cap-all-insulin-prices-at-35-a-month-has-little-chance-of-passing-congress.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64991714
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Post by ferret Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:48 pm

Although that's a step in the right direction, it really doesn't address the general lack of health care available to people in the U.S. How about all the private health care insurance companies that are milking the existing systems. They are in it FOR PROFIT and not for the health and well being of their clients.
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Post by Mexicoafterlife Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:22 pm

BisbeeGal wrote:In the US Big Pharma has gotten away with murder, literally.  Big contributors to politicians (both sides) kept them protected for a long time.  But their charm has worn off and at least the Dems are fighting them on costs.

Look at the recent example of insulin...they've been way overcharging for years.  In February Biden told the companies he's going to go after them.  Shazaam!  On March 1st Eli Lily lowered insulin by 70% and now others have followed suit.  

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/09/biden-proposal-to-cap-all-insulin-prices-at-35-a-month-has-little-chance-of-passing-congress.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64991714

Yes also why neither side will legalize HTC. It helps you sleep, relax, helps with depression, helps you poop. Big pharma would lose tons of money.

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Post by Mexicoafterlife Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:23 pm

ferret wrote:Although that's a step in the right direction, it really doesn't address the general lack of health care available to people in the U.S. How about all the private health care insurance companies that are milking the existing systems. They are in it FOR PROFIT and not for the health and well being of their clients.

Well I have to say as a vet who is married to a vet. Govt Healthcare sucks worse than for profit.

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Post by Carry Bean Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:33 pm

With young people, besides the normal insecurities, their drug use is often fun, gives them confidence, makes them feel secure and part of the cool crowd. Add emotional problems, etc. it’s often a one way street to addiction plus their brains aren’t fully developed and they’ll be looking at years of struggle looking for that first wonderful high. It’s why I hate drugs so much plus they can get an arrest record that will likely follow them forever.

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Post by ferret Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:38 pm

Doesn't matter whether it's the VA or Medicare or Insurance companies. In the U.S., they are ALL hamstrung by some aspect of the Gawd Almighty Profit System. Don't confuse goverment mandated healthcare with healthcare actually run by the government. Politicians make lousy Doctors.
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Post by SunFan Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:59 pm

ferret wrote:Doesn't matter whether it's the VA or Medicare or Insurance companies. In the U.S., they are ALL hamstrung by some aspect of the Gawd Almighty Profit System. Don't confuse goverment mandated healthcare with healthcare actually run by the government. Politicians make lousy Doctors.

My information is four or more years old so things may have changed. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark the original article but I only read mainstream press so it was probably Time, NY Times, The Economist, etc.

The United States spend 38% of its total health care spending on "administration". For administration think clerical staff in Doctor's offices and clinics who process claims and the entire health care insurance industry.

Canada not unlike other countries in Europe that support national health care spends 14%.

If the United States could reduce the administrative cost of private health down to the level of these other countries they would save enough money to provide health care to every individual without spending more money in total.

This will never happen of course. It's too late.

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Post by ferret Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:24 pm

Lots of good reading here... including an article by Time...
https://www.google.com/search?q=u+s+administrative+costs+in+healthcare&source=hp&ei=n0cfZPSOMovYkPIPyaizsAU&iflsig=AOEireoAAAAAZB9VrxuLjdWZgEVILSE8zGNyXlOzmlKr&oq=U.S.+administration+costs+in+health&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYAjIFCCEQoAEyBQghEKABMggIIRAWEB4QHTILCCEQFhAeEPEEEB0yCAghEBYQHhAdMggIIRAWEB4QHTIICCEQFhAeEB0yCAghEBYQHhAdOgUIABCABDoHCAAQigUQQzoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDOgsILhCKBRCxAxCDAToICAAQgAQQsQM6CwguEIAEEMcBEK8BOgUILhCABDoICC4QgAQQsQM6CwguEIAEEMcBENEDOgcIABCABBATOg0ILhCABBDHARDRAxATOggIABAWEB4QEzoLCAAQFhAeEPEEEBM6CQgAEIAEEA0QEzoPCC4QgAQQDRDHARDRAxATOgYIABAWEB46CQgAEBYQHhDxBFAAWL9iYJTyAWgAcAB4AIABkQGIAekbkgEFMTguMTeYAQCgAQE&sclient=gws-wiz
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Post by SunFan Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:40 pm

Thanks ferret. I'm getting old and lazy. Shoulda done a ChatGPT search before posting.

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Post by Mexicoafterlife Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:23 pm

Only problem with govt run health care is they will wield it to make you do what they want to get care... Ie they now own your health so you better do what they say.... Not very free

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Post by SunFan Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:08 pm

Mexicoafterlife, anything specific or quantitative to support your assertions?

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Post by Mexicoafterlife Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:35 pm

SunFan wrote:Mexicoafterlife, anything specific or quantitative to support your assertions?

SunFan

To start in Colorado you don't have to wear masks in doctors offices but the VA still mandates them.

I govt is always telling us what they want us to eat. What happens when they can tell us no more meat or you won't get care? Or tell us we have to get a vaccination we don't want? Right now they can't stop medical care. And dint say that can't happen they with the support of a group of citizens tried to make it so you couldn't work, go to church, done cities use grocery stores. After covid govt in control of my health care scares me more. Like one us army member did not want the Vax well while this was bring hashed out he went in for his yearly flue shit. They gave him covid Vax knowing he didn't want it. See govt feels it can do what it wants to us the citizens who are suppose to be the boss.

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Post by SunFan Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:44 pm

Mexicoafterlife, I respect your opinions, however mine differ.

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Post by Mexicoafterlife Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:02 pm

SunFan wrote:Mexicoafterlife, I respect your opinions, however mine differ.

SunFan

Thank you

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Post by mudgirl Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:43 pm

Dint?
Yearly flue shit?
Hard to take anyone seriously who can't spell 3-4 letter words in their native language.

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