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Electric Fence

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dvinton
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Electric Fence Empty Electric Fence

Post by rafterbr Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:31 pm

Our casa has a tall wall completely surrounding it. We have a corner lot so two walls are completely ours. Our neighbor on one side died and her brother from Canada has come and doing much work on the casa. Today I found he was installing an electric fence on top of the wall separating our two properties. He never said anything to me about doing this and we have many birds who I now worry about them. Since it is a joint wall I'm not sure he can legally do this without my permission. Has anyone had a similar experience.

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Post by MichaelB Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:49 pm

I suggest making an appointment with Spencer, Good Luck

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Post by mudgirl Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:03 am

Which side of the property line is the wall on? Block walls are usually on one side or the other, not straddling the property line. If it's on your side, he can't put anything on it, and vice versa. So I would try to establish the answer to that question first.
I would also try talking to him about it with your concerns.

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Post by CanuckBob Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:56 am

Birds sit on high tension lines all the time. An electric fence won't harm them.

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Post by rafterbr Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:38 pm

CanuckBob wrote:Birds sit on high tension lines all the time. An electric fence won't harm them.


Birds sit on high tension electric lines all the time because they are insulated. These wires are bare wires which can kill small birds or at least give them a bad shock. These lines are often used to keep cattle and horses in a pasture when there is not a regular fence. If there is a break in the insulation on high tension wires, I have seen many large birds killed this way. Hunters would often shoot doves with shotguns off the insulated wires and this often removed the insulation when a bird landed later it would electrocute it.

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Post by lammrj Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:36 pm

Most high tension lines are not insulated. I'm too lazy to post a link, but you can google it. You have to be grounded to get a shock.

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Post by rafterbr Thu Feb 22, 2024 6:07 pm

lammrj wrote:Most high tension lines are not insulated. I'm too lazy to post a link, but you can google it. You have to be grounded to get a shock.

Don't know about here but in Oklahoma each of the poles holding the high tension wire is grounded for lightening protection. So all the lines are insulated.

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Post by dvinton Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:19 am

rafterbr wrote:
lammrj wrote:Most high tension lines are not insulated. I'm too lazy to post a link, but you can google it. You have to be grounded to get a shock.

Don't know about here but in Oklahoma each of the poles holding the high tension wire is grounded for lightening protection.  So all the lines are insulated.

The towers are grounded for lighting protection.  The transmission lines are insulated from the tower by porcelain assemblies.  The wires are not insulated.

Electric Fence IMG_0138-tranjsmission-tower

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Post by ferret Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:13 am

rafterbr, who built the wall? Whoever built it, owns it. If you own the wall, then they have to build their own wall on their side and mount the electric fence on it. If they have their heart set on doing this, it's gonna get done one way or another... and either way it's gonna be an ugly intrusion. The three houses that were built beside me have their own wall abutting mine but theirs is six inches lower than my wall. One problem is that the installer of the posts for the electric fence just chunked out their wall and back filled those posts with concrete. MY problem is that the joint between the two walls and the electric post installation was not sealed and waterproofed which has created a damp wall at the top for me. That dampness has created a salitre effect at the top of my interior wall in both my kitchen (from one house) and in my bedroom (from the house beside it). My wooden kitchen upper cabinets grew mold inside. So not happy with the inefficient builder of those houses. Anyway, the new owners (actually the third owners) of the first house are working with me to solve that problem and I am grateful for neighbours that give a damn.
Whatever YOUR neighbours do will impact you and especially if your building is attached in any way to that wall. Just a heads up.
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Post by kip Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:24 am

We raise horses and have had electric fencing in certain areas for the past 40 years... so far never seen a dead bird near the fence.

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Post by rafterbr Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:27 pm

First I have looked again at wall and believe it belongs to neighbor as part of wall is back of building on their lot. So will ignore the new electric fence. Second the electricity here and in states is not being delivered by towers. It is delivered by poles and poles are grounded with insulated wires stretched between them. In Oklahoma all the poles were grounded. Here lakeside after this conversation I looked and half the poles are grounded.
If you look you will see this and there are insulated wires stretched between them. The uninsulated lines are wifi, telephone,etc. The insulated wires with electricity are grounded and will absolutely kill a bird or person if insulation removed.

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Post by BisbeeGal Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:34 pm

rafterbr wrote:First I have looked again at wall and believe it belongs to neighbor as part of wall is back of building on their lot.  So will ignore the new electric fence.  Second the electricity here and in states is not being delivered by towers.  It is delivered by poles and poles are grounded with insulated wires stretched between them.  In Oklahoma all the poles were grounded.  Here lakeside after this conversation I looked and half the poles are grounded.
If you look you will see this and there are insulated wires stretched between them.  The uninsulated lines are wifi, telephone,etc.  The insulated wires with electricity are grounded and will absolutely kill a bird or person if insulation removed.

From  Public Service Oklahoma FB page, https://www.facebook.com/PSOklahoma

Public Service Company of Oklahoma (PSO)
 ·
Overhead power lines are not insulated like household power cords. What may look like insulation is actually weatherproofing material. Never touch an overhead line.
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Post by rafterbr Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:45 pm

According to the National Wildlife Federation 11.6 million birds a year are killed by electric power lines. Many electric companies are starting to insulate there lines because of this. Especially in forests and other areas where there is a high density of birds.

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Post by lammrj Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:49 pm

rafterbr wrote:First I have looked again at wall and believe it belongs to neighbor as part of wall is back of building on their lot.  So will ignore the new electric fence.  Second the electricity here and in states is not being delivered by towers.  It is delivered by poles and poles are grounded with insulated wires stretched between them.  In Oklahoma all the poles were grounded.  Here lakeside after this conversation I looked and half the poles are grounded.
If you look you will see this and there are insulated wires stretched between them.  The uninsulated lines are wifi, telephone,etc.  The insulated wires with electricity are grounded and will absolutely kill a bird or person if insulation removed.

The uninsulated lines are the power lines, the insulated lines are the ancillary services. Birds can sit on the bare lines and not be electrocuted as long as they do not touch anything grounded. The grounding lines to the poles do just that, ground the poles. After 30 years in the construction industry, I was surprised when an electrician told me this. However I did not refuse to believe it.

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Post by rafterbr Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:29 pm

As I understand it, if a bird touches a second uninsulated line it will kill it. This happens with big birds. This has been a learning lesson. I have wired two houses but never thought about the power lines. I simply ran insulated lines and hooked up to box on power pole.

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Post by mudgirl Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:36 pm

ferret wrote:  MY problem is that the joint between the two walls and the electric post installation was not sealed and waterproofed which has created a damp wall at the top for me. That dampness has created a salitre effect at the top of my interior wall in both my kitchen (from one house) and in my bedroom (from the house beside it). My wooden kitchen upper cabinets grew mold inside. So not happy with the inefficient builder of those houses.

One of the best pieces of advice I got from a builder friend when I was ready to start building my house was not to build your house walls to the property line. If one is building from scratch, always leave a couple of feet so a neighbor can't attach to your wall and so you can get in between your wall and the neighbor's to do any needed repairs, painting or sealing.

I know so many people in Mexico who have incurable salitre problems. A lot of it happens when someone builds a wall, doesn't waterproof it below grade, then backfills it with dirt. The other side of that wall will always grow salitre from the damp soil up against it.

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Post by OldWEB Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:17 pm

I worked for a power company and have seen the LLT (Live Line Tools) people work on energized 66kV, 138kV, 230kV and even 500kV transmission lines. they would use insulated sticks for the lower voltages, but would 'tie in' to an energized line on the higher voltages and work with 'bare hands'. I know people that lost their life or limbs from accidentally touching a live HV wire and they were grounded, my own brother lost fingers working with a rural farm service, 7.2kV to ground, he was the connection to ground...
I have seen this work done, it looks scary, but the workers just LOVE the thrill!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94BH9TUiHM
This work is done around the world, they use a 'big bird' to facilitate repairs... if the big bird would get too close to the grounded tower or a second energized line while attached to the first energized line, yes, it would die and its little fledglings too.

OP, try to work with the new neighbor, clear the air, if he is Canadian, I am sure he would say "Sorry" if he is doing it wrong.
And the birds WILL NOT DIE.

EDIT: Just one of many sites.
https://fencefrenzy.com/do-electric-fences-kill-birds-and-small-animals/
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Post by ferret Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:36 pm

I hear ya mudgirl and that's what we did when we built on the coast. However, not everyone wants to build from scratch.
Yes to the "work with your neighbour". As I pointed out on TOB, there are many ways to make your house secure without the ugly electric fence. Someone who has never lived in Mexico has two strikes against them from the start... 1) pre conceived paranoia and 2) no knowledge of the other ways.
On the flip side, an electric fence is better than razor wire.
Talk to your neighbour!
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Post by mudgirl Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:08 pm

There was a 3 story building being constructed across the street from my old storefront in Sayulita years ago. One day the construction crew that was working on the open 2nd floor roof somehow reached out and touched the power lines that ran only a foot away from the building. He got blown off the roof and landed in a tree, but was apparently instantly electrocuted and dead before they got him down from the tree.

A few weeks later I arrived at my shop and heard that another worker had just gotten electrocuted on that job, and was in the hospital. The worker who told me that said, "Yeah, really bad luck". I said "It has nothing to do with bad luck- it's an unsafe worksite".

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Post by mudgirl Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:47 pm

ferret wrote:I hear ya mudgirl and that's what we did when we built on the coast. However, not everyone wants to build from scratch.

For sure not. And while you can get a house inspection before buying, it likely won't catch everything. You can be sure if there's a salitre problem that there's no way to get at to fix, the sellers will have had it scraped down and repainted so it isn't visible when potential buyers view the place, but will become evident in time.

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Post by rafterbr Sun Feb 25, 2024 5:20 pm

As suggested we invited the neighbor for tea. They stayed for 2 hours and we had a very nice visit. I did not mention the fence. They will be good neighbors to have.

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Post by OldWEB Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:29 pm

But please tell me you gave them a hit with the taser when they reached for a biscuit, just for a hint... eh? Electric Fence 1f609
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