Asking the tough question

Yeah, you know, the one where someone says, I would love to move to Lakeside, I've visited and fell in love with the area and the people, BUT I am afraid of the "Drug Wars" and violence.

The photo of the dead one in the pool of blood in front of Spenser's front gate killed also the hope to move to the Lake Chapala area.

Well, time has passed, an election has happened in Mexico and the thoughts return about moving there. I would like to start a real conversation with the real people living there. I have had enough of the shrill press and sensationalism. I just want to know "what is going on and how are you feeling about being there." If any of you feel able to converse about this, I would be grateful. Either via the Board or by PM.

Thanks.

Ron

IMO Mexico has always been a semi lawless state but the last 6 years have seen an unprecedented rise in violence, but I think the tragic events in Chapala were an abberation,the people are fed up with this stuff,hopefully it will get better soon.
Stuff happens everywhere,like in a movie theater in Colorado.

There was quite a bit of activity in May that you can read about in our crime section. It has been very quiet the last 4 - 6 weeks or so. We moved here FT in March without any reservations what so ever. Running this board has probably made me more knowledgeable of the local situations over the past 2 years or so than the average expat moving down here yet we still had no problem pulling the trigger. Since we have been here we have not felt uneasy at all. We do however probably have a higher tolerance for "adventure" than some. There has always been "troubles" in Mexico and probably will be for some time to come. If that one incident in front of Spencer's spooked you then you probably don't have the type of spirit that it takes to live down here IMO. No offense intended.

viajero wrote:Stuff happens everywhere,like in a movie theater in Colorado.

Or a block party in Toronto.

We moved here 7 years ago. There have been a couple of short-lived ugly periods. Nothing of note has happened since the kidnappings in May. I'm more than happy to discuss 7 years of history publicly or privately. If you've got questions let's hear them.

Viajero and Smartalex
I know that you are right. The area we live in has the lowest crime rate in the metro. We are spoiled.

CBob
Ii may be the fact of living in one area all one's life. You know, the devil you know.

David
Beyond the violence crap:
1) Full time living in another culture with an unfamiliar language.
2) Acceptance in the local area of the relatively "rich" gringo.
3) Living in a gated community vs. the village along side the locals.
To clarify my wife and I have been taking Spanish lessons and would prefer to integrate ourselves into the local community. Is this possible???

Ron

Roninmn
Taking Spanish lessons is a great start,Mexicans really appreciate it when we make an effort to speak their language, it's a sign of respect.Be polite,be humble and you'll get along fine,anyway that's been my experience.

Ron,

Ajijic is quite unique. Foreigners assimilate very well and very easily with the locals...but only those who speak the language. You will find that even a little Spanish goes a long way. So does a smile...or a wink.

RONINMN:

Even though we purchased a home in the Lake Chapala back in 97/98, we have never lived full time in the area but can offer a different perspective. Since we sold our home in '06, we have been geared to travel many areas of Mexico even though we always touch base at Lake Chapala. Up until '11, we always drove while I tried to watch the Mexican media and other sources quite closely for current news out of the areas we planned to travel to and then make plans accordingly . Even though we are now flying to Guadalajara and driving from there, I still attempt to find the news out of areas we plan to visit for a month or two prior to our trip. This trip, for example we will be visiting or passing through seven Mexican States.

I can say that at the present, it seems to me that things have quieted down quite a bit and we feel good about our choices. Now that can change in the three weeks before we depart or during our trip. Like many, we carry a laptop and stay in hotels with WIFI so that we can keep track of current events. For us, traveling Mexico is a wonderful and educational experience. And, OUR SPANISH IS EMBARRASSINGLY HORRIBLE!

In the interest of maintaining peace, I will refrain from expressing any opinions about living along the shores of Lake Chapala!

Too funny Neil...you're refraining from expressing an opinion on living along the shores of Lake Chapala when you've never lived here only visited. You're not knowledgeable enough to have much of an opinion and neither am I because we've only lived here for 14 months.
I like Mexico, I guess we must, because we've lived in Mexico for seventeen years. We moved here for one set of reasons and stayed for another set of reasons. The first being the cost of living and the climate and the second because of the warmth and the hospitality of the Mexican people. They have a set of values that has been long gone north of the border.
The violence was shocking but we're at home here and have no intention of leaving. In much the same way that other communities NOB will come to grips with their own violent events. We are no different.

Ferret:

You are reading too much into my offhanded comment. For exactly the reason you stated about us not having lived there on a full time basis - I chose to refrain from voicing an opinion about living along the north shore. On the other hand, I believe that it is my right to have an opinion that may have evolved through the years. Since Ron asked for opinions from people who were residents, I felt more comfortable making comments about Mexico as a Country!

RONINMN wrote:
Ii may be the fact of living in one area all one's life. You know, the devil you know.

Ron

If you have lived in one place all your life 1) you are very lucky to really have a home, and 2) don't make your first move a permanent move to another country.

Ron I can only suggest that you plan a longer term stay here, perhaps 3 - 6 months and live in one or two different types of places/areas and see how it feels.

I moved here a year and a half ago, single female with my cat, and have never felt unsafe or uneasy. The events in May gave me pause and helped me to understand the fear that my Mexican friends and neighbours live with daily and also made me feel embarrassed to be living side by side with them and not have to feel their fears.

I still go out alone or in groups, at night or during the day, and while I keep my wits about me and am aware of my surroundings I do not fear or feel afraid.

If you have not lived or travelled in other countries then making a move like this is a huge daunting task. If you read the papers or websites that cover the violence it can be unsettling as well. If you ask a hundred expats you will get 100 different opinions and either be accused of burying your head in the sand or of sensationalizing things.

You have to live within your own comfort zone. This may be a place you can do so but it may not. Again, try a long term stay here living in a rental, mixing with people and see how it fits and how you feel. Do not make any big permanent decisions until you have spent a lot of time in this area or any area you are considering. Good luck!

I'll chime in on this one..................
We are Canadian couple who retired early (mid 50's). Lived in a small town in Ontario that had a crime rate of zero. Moving here (a year now) has taken a little getting us to but for the most part we love it here, feel very safe and haven't looked back. I belive it is correct to say that it's the devil you know but you really have to be a certain type of person to sell all your belongings and move down here permanently. Although concerned by the recent events, we keep a low profile and are happy with our life here. People are wonderful, happy, friendly and we feel proud to be part of such a wonderful community. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Just know that no where is perfect and no where in the world is out of reach of the bad guys!

Guiness wrote:I'll chime in on this one..................
We are Canadian couple who retired early (mid 50's). Lived in a small town in Ontario that had a crime rate of zero. Moving here (a year now) has taken a little getting us to but for the most part we love it here, feel very safe and haven't looked back. I belive it is correct to say that it's the devil you know but you really have to be a certain type of person to sell all your belongings and move down here permanently. Although concerned by the recent events, we keep a low profile and are happy with our life here. People are wonderful, happy, friendly and we feel proud to be part of such a wonderful community. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Just know that no where is perfect and no where in the world is out of reach of the bad guys!

Your profile says you live at Chapala Haciendas; didn't they just discover a couple (the husband is an expat) murdered there yesterday?!?!?!

No, somewhere near the Haciendas. Exact cause of death, has not been released yet.

Ron,
1) Full time living in another culture with an unfamiliar language.
2) Acceptance in the local area of the relatively "rich" gringo.
3) Living in a gated community vs. the village along side the locals.
To clarify my wife and I have been taking Spanish lessons and would prefer to integrate ourselves into the local community. Is this possible???
1) ...is a challenge unless you stay locked indoors.
2) The maids, gardeners, and local businesses love having us here. Many others do not.
3) It's not that black and white. You don't have to live in the Village to have Mexican neighbors. Many gated developements have Mexican residents and/or owners. We have several Mexican friends both Lakeside and in Guadalajara. IMHO, it's virtually impossible to become fully integrated. You'll adapt and be accepted and that's sufficient.

The suggestion was made that you come for an extended visit is a good one. Do it!

Thanks to all for your sharing and input.

I spent 25+ years in International Sales and Marketing managing distributors and traveling to 33 countries around the world. My wife and I met for the first time in Moscow being part of a 6 week long State of MN trade mission in 1990. Her advertising agency represented companies from Europe and Asia. So we don't lack for other country experience.

As my wife and I read the posts, our reluctance to "Pull the Trigger" (Tnx CBob) is becoming more clear to us. It really the relationships and relatives who universally condemn the move. That's our problem and has very little to do with Mexico or it's current problems. We will deal with it.

I want to thank all of you again. I feel that we know each a little better now. I'm looking forward to our next visit to the Chapala area and I hope its a really, really long one.

Ron in MN - hopefully to become Ron in LC. Thanks again.

Atta boy Ron. Come on down and check things out first hand. I am sure you will find everything is OK like we did. Your friends & relatives will soon realize they will have free digs in Mexico.

That's funny Ron! Everybody warned us about moving to Mexico..."you'll be back in six months"..."you're gonna get robbed"..."you're gonna get sick".
Hogwash!
Now they LOVE coming here.

RONINMN wrote:
As my wife and I read the posts, our reluctance to "Pull the Trigger" (Tnx CBob) is becoming more clear to us. It really the relationships and relatives who universally condemn the move. That's our problem and has very little to do with Mexico or it's current problems. We will deal with it.

Oh. Well if that's it....I'm sure all of us who are happy living in Mexico have friends and family who, at least initially, thought we were nuts for moving here.

Ask yourself this: Of those relatives and relations who universally condemn the move, how much time have they spent in Mexico themselves? (And one week at a beach resort escaping a Minnesota winter doesn't count for much.) If the answer to that question is they've spent little or no time here, then their opinions on the matter may not have much value. Have you asked them why, specifically, they think it would be a disaster? Do they know something about you that we couldn't possibly know that leads them to think it wouldn't work out for you?

As previously recommended, definitely come down and spend a good chunk of time here. For sure, rent first. It's been said a million times, but it can't be said too often: Mexico isn't for everyone. That's just a fact. And if you come down and spend time and discover it's not a good fit for you, there's no shame in that either.

Rosa Venus wrote:

RONINMN wrote:
As my wife and I read the posts, our reluctance to "Pull the Trigger" (Tnx CBob) is becoming more clear to us. It really the relationships and relatives who universally condemn the move. That's our problem and has very little to do with Mexico or it's current problems. We will deal with it.

Oh. Well if that's it....I'm sure all of us who are happy living in Mexico have friends and family who, at least initially, thought we were nuts for moving here.

Ask yourself this: Of those relatives and relations who universally condemn the move, how much time have they spent in Mexico themselves? (And one week at a beach resort escaping a Minnesota winter doesn't count for much.) If the answer to that question is they've spent little or no time here, then their opinions on the matter may not have much value. Have you asked them why, specifically, they think it would be a disaster? Do they know something about you that we couldn't possibly know that leads them to think it wouldn't work out for you?

As previously recommended, definitely come down and spend a good chunk of time here. For sure, rent first. It's been said a million times, but it can't be said too often: Mexico isn't for everyone. That's just a fact. And if you come down and spend time and discover it's not a good fit for you, there's no shame in that either.

well... might make em a bit of a Pussy...

"I'm sorry, I made a mistake" is a statement of strength.

Many thanks to all that responded. I hope that my wife and I get to meet you in person. Maybe at Swarm XX. Thanks again.
Ron