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remember our veterans

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Post by gravy Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:04 am

Love , peace of mind , and recognition to ALL our veterans on this day
L/CPL Gravy Graves USMC
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Post by viajero Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:10 am

Ditto.

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Post by Uncle Jack Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:30 am

Semper Fi

uj
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Post by ferret Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:07 pm

A big thank you to ALL those who have served both in the past and the present.
I won't forget.
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Post by martygraw Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:02 pm

At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, WE WILL REMEMBER THEM
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Post by hound dog Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:11 pm

Let´s get this bullshit in perspective. Dawg joined the Marine Corps in 1960 to (1) In the phrase of the day, "To become a man."

and also because:

(2) in 1960 there was a military draft which would have enslaved Dawg to a minimum two year life of enslavement in the army - NOT A CHOICE! - serve as a conscript without even the least bit of choice as to whether or not to be conscripted or choose your conscription which in my case was the Marine Corps. I served in the Marine Corps out of necessity and, had there not been conscription, I would have told them to go screw themslves. Do you think I enjoyed being treated like a worm for six months so I could evolve into manhood or do you concede that I was enslaved by a system akin to the gulag? Get serious plebiscites - ignorant sycophants not subject today to the draft AKA public enslavement. Veterans, my ass, during the 1960s Dawg was called up to serve in Cuba and ,later. in Viet Nam. I escaped each assignment by pure luck or otherwise, today, I´d be fertilizer in some beach in Cuba or Southeast Asia. I wasn´t smart or stupid to avoid that - just lucky.

Do you have any idea what the draft did to young men in the 60s? It robbed them of any backbone they may have grown up with and turned them into slavish worms willing to do anything to avoid having their asses shot off for no reason except to preserve French Colonials or some corrupt U.S. ploitician with no scruples. Think and then tell me the difference between German conscripts in 1938 and U. S. conscripts in 1960 and the violence they personally rationalized.

War crimes.
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Post by DaveP Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:52 pm

"To become a man.

Did it work?
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Post by hound dog Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:42 pm

[quote="DaveP"] "To become a man.

Did it work?[/quote]


Does one achive manhood by paying fealty to despots or their mignons represented by lowly Marine Corps drill instructors with questionable moral backbone bullying recruits with no underpinning of power? If so, once Germany was subdued by the compliant representatives of the then defined underclaases, why didn´t those underclasses rise up in rebellion? I think I know why - do you?
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Post by hound dog Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:16 pm

Tell me something, Vet Lovers; who is more important in the American lexicon, the moron from Podunk, Arkansas or Minnesota arising from the piney woods or mosquito infested plains to go engage in battle with the Germans/Japanese/Italians/ Vietnamese/Iraquis/ Afghans/Cambodians/Libyans/Panamanians/ they don´t know from Adam´s Housecat or the butcher who slaughters countless others inhabiting the planet just to render gelatin or fatty residue for making sausages.

Where do you find happiness in this bloodletting?
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Post by martygraw Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:51 pm

If it has to be explained to you roundman, it's not worth the effort.
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Post by hound dog Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:08 pm

[quote="martygraw"]If it has to be explained to you roundman, it's not worth the effort.[/quote]

Especially if one lacks the erudition to even start to try; right, Fat Marty?

Dawg has his orders to report to Cuba and then Vietnam as an 0300 Marine Corps Rifleman circa 1965 and later and escaped becoming fertilizer on a beach in one of those places by the skin of my teeth. Your credentials?
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Post by ferret Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:04 pm

Let's put it another way then...we honour those who were proud to serve their country.
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Post by espíritu del lago Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:41 pm

Hear hear !!!
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Post by gravy Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:10 pm

hound dog wrote:Let´s get this bullshit in perspective. Dawg joined the Marine Corps in 1960 to (1) In the phrase of the day, "To become a man."

and also because:

(2) in 1960 there was a military draft which would have enslaved Dawg to a minimum two year life of enslavement in the army - NOT A CHOICE! - serve as a conscript without even the least bit of choice as to whether or not to be conscripted or choose your conscription which in my case was the Marine Corps. I served in the Marine Corps out of necessity and, had there not been conscription, I would have told them to go screw themslves. Do you think I enjoyed being treated like a worm for six months so I could evolve into manhood or do you concede that I was enslaved by a system akin to the gulag? Get serious plebiscites - ignorant sycophants not subject today to the draft AKA public enslavement. Veterans, my ass, during the 1960s Dawg was called up to serve in Cuba and ,later. in Viet Nam. I escaped each assignment by pure luck or otherwise, today, I´d be fertilizer in some beach in Cuba or Southeast Asia. I wasn´t smart or stupid to avoid that - just lucky.

Do you have any idea what the draft did to young men in the 60s? It robbed them of any backbone they may have grown up with and turned them into slavish worms willing to do anything to avoid having their asses shot off for no reason except to preserve French Colonials or some corrupt U.S. ploitician with no scruples. Think and then tell me the difference between German conscripts in 1938 and U. S. conscripts in 1960 and the violence they personally rationalized.

War crimes.

glad you weren't in my unit .................
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Post by Zedinmexico Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:44 am

OK I see you have to be a vet to get it but if you disagree with a vet it
doesn't count. Dawg has a right to his opinion. I can't have an opinion
on anything about this cause I am not a Vet. Hmmm what were you folks
fighting over in these wars?? Obviously nothing important. Yes thank you
Vets for your service but also thanks to the Peace corps guys, the Americorp
guys, and all the other folks who give service to the US in all the different
ways who get no praise or days.

Z

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Post by The Postman Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:27 am

Being one of Dawg's morons from MN I will wade in the the subject. Veterans Day is not a celebration of war but a day of rembrance. Rembrance fallen comrades, life changing events and friends who surivived an unwanted experience. An experience right or wrong was chosen by the leaders of our country. I won the experience with a low lottery number.
As far as becoming a man it is more about being trained to work as a team and not as an individual. It is about learning about different beliefs and life styles around the rest of the US that northern MN would not have shown me. These are tools that help me chose who I want to be as I live my
life. More tools are added everyday as I experience more in the world.
The war aspect is what needs to be remembered till it is obsolete.

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Post by lunateak Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:03 am

A day to remember and acknowledge the sacrifices we ask of our most precious treasures. And a day where we might reflect on how we can reach a point where we no longer have a need for the ultimate sacrifice. Just call me Pollyanna.
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Post by hound dog Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:26 am

[quote="The Postman"] Being one of Dawg's morons from MN I will wade in the the subject. Veterans Day is not a celebration of war but a day of rembrance. Rembrance fallen comrades, life changing events and friends who surivived an unwanted experience. An experience right or wrong was chosen by the leaders of our country. I won the experience with a low lottery number.
As far as becoming a man it is more about being trained to work as a team and not as an individual. It is about learning about different beliefs and life styles around the rest of the US that northern MN would not have shown me. These are tools that help me chose who I want to be as I live my
life. More tools are added everyday as I experience more in the world.
The war aspect is what needs to be remembered till it is obsolete. [/quote]


Well said Postman and not in the least bit "moronic".

I missed having to go to Vietnam when many of my friends and acquaintances had to go because I joined the Marine Corps right out of high school upon graduation in 1960 when the war in Indochina had yet to involve the U.S. military significantly as later came to pass. When I was active, the fear was that we would be called up to invade Cuba and, thank God, that never happened after the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Those among us who went to Vietnam got caught up in that engagement because they elected to defer their military service until after they finished college and then were drafted starting about the mid-60s. I still remember the terrible waste of young American and lives and Asian lives both young and old and the way our servicemen were treated when they arrived back home and were villified for having done their duty as defined by the then powers that were. Perhaps that experience will always color my view of pious ceremonial events honoring veterans - no disrespect to the veterans themselves intended and I recognize the importance of assuring those just returned from wars that society is still with them since I have seen first hand what happens when society turns on them as they did in my youth. It was by the shearest of luck that I did not end up a 2nd Lieutenant on the front lines in Vietnam facing a dedicated enemy.

That having been said, I am actually in favor of a military draft for men and women with an alternative for compulsory service in a civilian job corps as long as young people are given meaningful and constructive tasks to perform for the good of all. When I went off to Parris Island in 1960 a white son of the racially segregated south, the Marine Corps had only recently racially integrated its ranks and they were careful to separate southern whites and northern blacks in different training platoons with only two token southern blacks assigned to each "southern" training platoon of 80 recruits but I was inadvertently assigned to a platoon of New Yorkers with a large contingent of black recruits and assigned a black bunkmate, a black fire team leader and a black squad leader. I befriended some of these guys, grew up very fast and, to this day, believe that my process of obtaining manhood had more to do with placing me with recruiits from diverse backgrounds more than being screamed at by drill instructors or being run to exhaustion up and down a parade field. If it had not been for the draft I would have never joined the Marine Corps and would have, perhaps, stayed in that deep southern cacoon into maturity.
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Post by The Postman Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:36 am

I too agree with the draft. It would make it harder for our leaders to go to war if their sons and daughters were in the ante and not just taxpayer monies. The cause and proof of need would have to be greater than the last few wars.
The reasons for Viet Nam is still debated but I believe mainly a bumbling CIA misinformed all trying to prove their value.
I also think our leaders should have to serve somewhere be it the military or peace corp, etc. besides a corporation or law firm. Get them out and about so they broaden their minds. Having the all volunteer army makes it less important for politicans to serve. They can get elected with party loyalty only. If they were subject to working out differences and compromise they could see more trees in the forest. (wishing again)

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Post by merry Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:55 pm

You are welcome.

Merry

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