New immigration laws

I've spent quite a bit of time researching these new immigration laws. I've actually read the law, had it translated and then took it to a lawyer and had it translated there also.

Most of this info is about people with FM-2 or FM-3. The rest is not of interest to me so I haven't paid attention to it. Some of the actual designations may be wrong but I think you will get the picture.

1. If you have an FM2 or FM3, look on the back. There is "Prorraga" and a number. If it is a 1 or 2, it can be renewed just like always. No financials, no nothing. If it has a 3 or a 4 it cannot be renewed. You have a choice of moving up to the permanent visa or having to start over. The actual law says that it must be started over at an embassey out of the country but I have also been told that it can be done here by paying a fine. I HAVE NOT ACTUALLY TALKED TO ANYONE WHO HAS DONE THIS IN COUNTRY RENEWAL.

2. The actual law says that if you have been here for 4 years on an FM2 or FM3, you can go permanent with no financials. The law says "continuous" so if you didn't renew on time, you have to start over from that break to get the 4 years. There is a quirk in the law. The law says "4 years" not "4 years or more". If you have been here 50 years and the Prorraga number is 1 (renewed once) then officially you have been here 2 years.

3. If you have a current FM2 or FM3, you can apply at anytime to go permanent, however, you will have to prove that you have the money necessay and that means financials. The law says 6 months of income or 12 months of asset statements. There is also a point system WHICH HAS NOT BEEN DEFINED YET. It should happen in January.

4. Autos: The old system was that if you had a 180 day visa, an FM2 or FM3, you could have a NOB plated car and you were good as long as your visa was good. If you went permanent, you had to remove the car or import it and pay customs within 90 days.

There is a quirk. Customs and immigration are separate and each has their own laws. Immigration changed the name of all these visas but customs has not caught up. Techincally, if you go renew a visa now, no matter what you get, you are in the gray area. FM2 and FM3 no longer exist and the new permanent visa name has changed. Eventually, customs will catch up but until they do, there is no law that says specifically if a NOB plate is OK or that your visa requires a MX plated car.

There is a hotline that you can call. My situation is that I have an FM-3 with the number 4. According to the hotline, I can upgrade to a permanent with no financials as long as the FM-3 has always been renewed on time. As far as the autos, wasn't their problem, call customs.

I've talked to a lot of people over this and this is what I've found:

I have a couple in Cuernavaca. They went in the second day of this new visa deal to see what was needed in financials. They had a number 4 on their FM3s. All they wanted was the standard stuff, no financials. Figuring it was their lucky day, they got everything together, paid the fee and are waiting for their visa back, which they were told would be after Jan 1. They asked about the cars and were told that they would or could? get a letter that "grandfathered" them with NOB plates. They haven't seen that either.

I talked to a guy who lives around PV somewhere. They told him that he needed financials so he scrounged them up. When he went back, they told him that he didn't need financials and gave them back to him. He has an FM3 with a number 3 on it and went permanent.

From what I hear locally, Chapala wants 12 months of income or 12 months of asset statement although the law clearly states 6 months of income. It doesn't seem to matter to them what the number on the back of the FM2 or FM3 is. I think that is going to change.

If you go read the actual law and look at it, it is pretty well perfect. It protects the people who are here. If you currently have an FM2 or FM3 you can renew it with no financials until you build 4 years and then you can go permanent with no financials.

New people coming here to retire will have to prove financial capacity before they get the new "FM2/FM3". In fact, I think that you can go immediately to the new permanent visa by just proving you have the financial strength. I'm not totally sure of that but I know that you could get a new "FM2/FM3" and immediately upon arrival go swap it for the new permanent visa. The law says that you can apply at any time if you have a current visa.

I have to do something to renew my visa in April so this is definately of interest to me. As I learn more, I'll post it.

Dealing with this locally is a bit frustrating. For years, I loved to fight with the IRS because I'd find the loophole that I liked and and point it out in the manual. Then they had to look thru 84,000 pages to find something that said I was wrong. Down here, the local guy is the gatekeeper and what he says goes.

As a kid, my uncle was a sheriff in NC. He got into it with an FBI guy one day and threatened to lock the FBI guy up. The FBI guy say that he was Federal and topped the sheriff. My uncle told him that he controlled the jail and who got locked up and who got out. The FBI got the message and left. That's kinda the way that I feel about the local immigration office. I may be right but they are in control so whatever they want I will do........

Thanks, now if they want to be silly about things here, can we not just go to Guadalajara? I don't really care much one way or another however don't want to be caught in some maelstrom of events which may not be foreseen and may take months to clear up.

Our number is BTW 3.

Thanks for your work and money spent.
I and others I am sure appreciate it very much.

Z

Thanks for this. Will ask our attorney again. We have FM3 with 3 on the back (which means we've been here 4 years, original first year, plus 3 renewals, continuous, always renewed on time) and were told by our attorney that we needed to either leave the country and apply for temporary residency or go permanent and meet the new financial requirements. Funny that what I am hearing from other jurisdictions is consistent with what you have posted, but the people here in Chapala don't want to play by the rules. We've had about enough of Chapala!

I won't have to deal with ANY of the crapola above. I have my new Inmigrado (old designation FM 3 to FM 2).

And no one is telling anyone or kicking anyone out of the country with idiotic Immigration laws or because they have NOB plates or they'll be a mass exodus and Mexico will go down the crapcan and the middle class will go back to living in shacks again.

joec wrote:I won't have to deal with ANY of the crapola above. I have my new Inmigrado (old designation FM 3 to FM 2).

And no one is telling anyone or kicking anyone out of the country with idiotic Immigration laws or because they have NOB plates or they'll be a mass exodus and Mexico will go down the crapcan and the middle class will go back to living in shacks again.

Oh my God...Johnny's back....
John,a mass exodus of gringo retirees would have very little if any effect on the vast majority of Mexicans.
They won't be going back to living in shacks...You really are an idiot sometimes.

Correction Chris, that is Joec......John would never post this kind of RUBBISH......LMAO

Parker wrote: I believe this is a classic case of “Follow the Money” rule. There are more than several individuals here in Chapala that have considerable influence with immigration and earn a living by making it more difficult for foreigners so we will use their services. I have no knowledge to this but maybe “Spencer” is the exception to the rule. I

"There are more than several individuals here in Chapala that have considerable influence with immigration and earn a living by making it more difficult for foreigners so we will use their services."

What? More than several? These are some pretty heavy allegations to be making Parker. You really need to provide some backup or reasoning. Chapala is a small town.

E-raq wrote:Thanks, now if they want to be silly about things here, can we not just go to Guadalajara? I don't really care much one way or another however don't want to be caught in some maelstrom of events which may not be foreseen and may take months to clear up.

Our number is BTW 3.

I don't think we can go direct to Guad. I have asked that question and never gotten a "yes" answer from anyone

With respect to John"s comment about the Mexican middle class, a lengthy but interesting article from THE WASHINGTON POST:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/as-mexico-claws-toward-prosperity-some-in-middle-class-slide-back/2012/12/19/93ecfe68-31c1-11e2-92f0-496af208bf23_story.html

The following link takes one to a whole page of "Special Reports" on Mexico:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/specialreports/the-new-mexicans

jrm30655 wrote:

E-raq wrote:Thanks, now if they want to be silly about things here, can we not just go to Guadalajara? I don't really care much one way or another however don't want to be caught in some maelstrom of events which may not be foreseen and may take months to clear up.

Our number is BTW 3.

I don't think we can go direct to Guad. I have asked that question and never gotten a "yes" answer from anyone

We can for our drivers licenses, and frankly it may actually be a tad faster, we also HAVE to go there for our IMSS payments, a trip best avoided, Spencer now does ours. Spencer needs a limited power of attorney in order to do it. So, perhaps he can handle this for us as well along with that POA. Fingers crossed!!!!!

One must use the INM office closest to their home. You can to to Guadalajara for your drivers license because it is issued by the state of Jalisco. INM is Federal.

TexMex wrote:Thanks for this. Will ask our attorney again. We have FM3 with 3 on the back (which means we've been here 4 years, original first year, plus 3 renewals, continuous, always renewed on time) and were told by our attorney that we needed to either leave the country and apply for temporary residency or go permanent and meet the new financial requirements. Funny that what I am hearing from other jurisdictions is consistent with what you have posted, but the people here in Chapala don't want to play by the rules. We've had about enough of Chapala!

All of this is still new and being shaken out.

When I had to deal with the IRS, I was almost always dealing with an accountant or a lawyer with a lot of experience. A lot of the people in the local offices do not fit that profile.

I don't think that they are out "to get us", I think that they just haven't been trained adequately yet. I think that there will be complaints and the situation will be sorted out shortly.

You can call the hotline (the number is on one of the boards) and you can find someone who speaks English. When I told them what Chapala was requiring, the guy said "That is not right". There is a way to make a complaint but I'm not sure how.

Once a few complaints are made, things will change.

You have to understand that this is a broad law and it took me days to put it all together for just my situation. Not only that, at least a part of it is still being fleshed out.

The "points" part still has not been published. In fact, the guy on the hotline said that the assets portion was just part of the points system. From what I've heard (mostly rumor) you can get points for education, property in MX, speaking Spanish, education and needed job skills.

This is basically what the US does now to get a green card. If you have certain talents or start a business or make a certain size investment, you can get a green card immediately. The difference is here it is SO much easier.

Again, if you really look at all this, it really is better for us. If you are thinking of retiring here, you can go to the consulate and get approved and pay for up to 4 years. After 4 years, you can become permanent. There's no restrictions on working here, you can come and go as much as you want and there are no restrictions. Before you had to renew yearly and if you had an FM2, you could only be out of MX a limited time. Now, all of that is gone.

I feel for those that got caught up in the startup confusion but the end result will be much better.

I have a friend who has been here almost 25 years. She's been thru several of these. She says a month before her visa ends, she will go get a list of what they want, scronge it up and turn it in. She's not going to worry until then since anything can change.

David wrote:One must use the INM office closest to their home. You can to to Guadalajara for your drivers license because it is issued by the state of Jalisco. INM is Federal.

Gee thanks David. So if it is Federal why are different offices requiring different documents? Should they not all be exactly the same?

Could we go to Mexico City? Might be a nice little getaway.

E-raq wrote:

David wrote:One must use the INM office closest to their home. You can to to Guadalajara for your drivers license because it is issued by the state of Jalisco. INM is Federal.

Gee thanks David. So if it is Federal why are different offices requiring different documents? Should they not all be exactly the same?

Could we go to Mexico City? Might be a nice little getaway.

Technically, yes but appearantly you are supposed to use the closest. I could not find anything in the actual law that said that but you have to prove residence, so they know where you live.

All offices should require exactly the same things and have the same rules.

In researching this, I ran across something that said that the actual "grunt work" of going thru the paperwork was being jobbed out to some private company. After they were checked and approved, the package goes back to immigration for finger prints and they actually issue the cards. I can't verify that.

I have also heard that we may have to go to Guad to pick up the "permanent" visas. Can't confirm that either since appearantly none have been issued yet.

If anyone has actually recieved a new visa, pls e-mail me at jrm30655 at hotmail.com and tell me what happened...

joec wrote:I won't have to deal with ANY of the crapola above. I have my new Inmigrado (old designation FM 3 to FM 2).

And no one is telling anyone or kicking anyone out of the country with idiotic Immigration laws or because they have NOB plates or they'll be a mass exodus and Mexico will go down the crapcan and the middle class will go back to living in shacks again.

"...or they´ll be..."

Did you mean to say, "There´ll be? If you cannot handle contractions, do not lecture others, cheaphshot. Mexico can survive without your sorry ass.

John , while I do not wish to point out the difficencies in your cheesy Massachusetts schooling vs. my redneck Alabama schooling, I wish to point out that you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground and Dawg not only knows the capital citiies of every state of the U.S. union but the capital of Madasgascar which I would bet my bottom dollar you cannot identify or describe in detail much less tell me the primary ethnic group that controls that country.

Have at it.

hound dog wrote:

joec wrote:I won't have to deal with ANY of the crapola above. I have my new Inmigrado (old designation FM 3 to FM 2).

And no one is telling anyone or kicking anyone out of the country with idiotic Immigration laws or because they have NOB plates or they'll be a mass exodus and Mexico will go down the crapcan and the middle class will go back to living in shacks again.

Actually, John , while I do not wish to point out the difficencies in your cheesy Massachusetts schooling vs. my redneck Alabama schooling, I wish to gratuiously point out that you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground and Dawg not only knows the capital citiies of every state of the U.S. union but the capital of Madasgascar which I would bet my bottom dollar you cannot identiy much less tell me the primary ethnic group that controls that country.

Have at it.

Dawg, LMFAO....You are becomming the Master of Baitors!

Thank you, JW. I have been a Master Baitor since that most discerning of things first stood up and saluted me in about 1953. At first, I misunderstood the language but I caught on soon enough. Communication has never been a problem since.

This all appears to be pure speculation! One can have all the Mexican rules, regs and statements of law but the reality is that it is determined by the manner in which the local offfices interprets the rules.

you do to prove residence. either a phone bill or electric bill in your name. i do it every year. (recent telephone bill).

CheenaGringo wrote:This all appears to be pure speculation! One can have all the Mexican rules, regs and statements of law but the reality is that it is determined by the manner in which the local offfices interprets the rules.

At this point you are correct but I think that they will all be on the same page shortly.

This is federal law and it's new. It will get sorted out eventually. Hopefully, shortly.

I was in business in the US for 27 years and had my share of run ins with the government, everything from building inspectors to the IRS. A lot of the time, the arguments sounded like Bill Clinton arguing about "what is "is"".

It's like my friend in PV. They wanted all those financials so he spends two days getting everything together and then they decide that they don't need them. He was not a happy camper. I told him to go drop 500p at the closest church. The less they have to look at, the fewer things to find wrong.

If you look at this, this is much better than before. Technically, if you want to come to MX and retire, you can go to a consulate in your home country, provide all your paperwork and pay for 4 years. At the end of that you can go permanent by just filling out an application and paying the fee. That is about as simple and easy as you will find anywhere in the world today.

There's slightly over 1 million expats retired here. They probably average at least $2000 a month in income, most of which ends up in the local economy. That is $2 BILLION a month or 24 BILLION a year. The government is not going to risk losing that.

According to Google, MX has about 25 Million tourists per year. If you figure that they spend $1000 per visitor, that is $25 Billion.

If you look at it, the retired expats are probably spending as much as the total tourist trade in MX. I'm sure that the government knows this and I think these changes are designed to make it easier to retire here.

The expat community here swings a lot of weight. A few months ago, two motorcycle cops moved in and terrorized the old ladies. They were way out of line. On the third day, a group of expats went to see the police chief and the motorcycle cops vanished and haven't been seen since.

I expect the same thing to happen at the local immigration office now that people are beginning to understand the law. If the problems continue, there will be complaints and then there will be changes. Bet on it......

There's an article with the head of the immigration in the Guad Reporter out today. There is a question about financials and going to permanent after 4 years on an FM2 or FM3.

"Income is not a consideration for those who are elgiable under some other basis, such as changing status after 4 full years of temporary residency......"

So there it is.

Full story in the Dec 22 Guad Reporter.

Couldn't find the Guad Reporter article .... have a link?