Re: How many have left?

by hockables Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:06 pm

perhaps folks would feel better after a vacation...

next summer... book yourselves two months in beautiful, sunny, downtown detroit....

then ya'll be singing Dorothy's Praise... " there's no place like home "

by gringal Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:13 pm

by CanuckBob Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:18 pm

Solovino wrote:Some of the comments on this thread are ridiculous. Calling the people who are leaving wussies and then posturing about how fearless you are. What a bunch of crap. If someone isn't comfortable because of what they perceive as a threat to their personal safety and decides to live somewhere else, who is anyone else to criticize or deride that decision?
Whether those fears are based in reality or a figment of their imaginations
Life is short and we all have the right to live it as contentedly as we can manage. . The same goes for those who choose to stay in their adopted country.

Agreed.

by CanuckBob Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:20 pm

hockables wrote:perhaps folks would feel better after a vacation...

next summer... book yourselves two months in beautiful, sunny, downtown detroit....

then ya'll be singing Dorothy's Praise... " there's no place like home "

How about downtown Winnipeg Hocks? Don't be selling Canada short now...........

by Jim W Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:56 pm

hound dog wrote:What is your point, Neil? John has made it clear in the past that his income is limited by social security benefits and he is burdened by excessive health insurance premiums. I don´t see where he has been disingenuous. I wish John luck in selling his home in Ajijic as he will need it in a crashing market. I am 69 years old and my wife is 65 and our major medical health care premiums are now up to about $500USD a month. They will no doubt continue to rise as I enter my 70s but that is life. We can afford it so far but maybe there will become a time when we will self-insure. We shall see. For the moment, I can see why John might find it appropriate to move back to the U.S. and I see no reason to pick on him because of that decision. I, personally, would rather rot in hell than move back to the United States.

Dawg, .....my wife is 57. me 63 when we paid premium , 45,000 pesos and change to Allianze, our 6th year...plus 16% IVA The premiums are not an issue, but with a 25,000 pesos deductible.....Per incident....rather than cumulative .... we spent approx. 70,000 pesos in treatments for misc. issues.,.....last year... none were covered as the deductible was not met....Point is....insurance is cheap....many are going self insured......because treatment normally falls below deductible, and if you are younger and in good health ....Had I gone self insured, and put the money in a savings account, paid out of pocket, I would have over 200,000 in my medical account, plus I don;t pay IVA @ my local MD. Very Happy

by borderreiver Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:26 pm

I am looking forward to the the "Excellent Adventures of CB in LC." Could make for an excellent sitcom and we love a good sitcom. Tighten your seat belts Lakeside here they come. Yikes.

by Jim W Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:41 pm

borderreiver wrote:I am looking forward to the the "Excellent Adventures of CB in LC." Could make for an excellent sitcom and we love a good sitcom. Tighten your seat belts Lakeside here they come. Yikes.

WTF....where did this come from......did I miss somthun on this thread? Evil or Very Mad

by Parker Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:54 pm

We’re staying as so are all of our friends. One couple would like to return but this has been the situation for several years. They want to be nearer to family.

by raqueteer Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:34 am

Solovino wrote:Some of the comments on this thread are ridiculous. Calling the people who are leaving wussies and then posturing about how fearless you are. What a bunch of crap. If someone isn't comfortable because of what they perceive as a threat to their personal safety and decides to live somewhere else, who is anyone else to criticize or deride that decision?
Whether those fears are based in reality or a figment of their imaginations
Life is short and we all have the right to live it as contentedly as we can manage. . The same goes for those who choose to stay in their adopted country.

I'm sorry Solo, but I disagree with you on this. Not about feeling more comfortable elsewhere, that is an individual choice. Clearly people, particularly on TOB have reacted very badly to an incident, one which has been pretty rare in the past. In 12 years here I can count a handful of murders of foreigners, as in an average of about one every two years.. The level of scaremongering over this past few days has reached epidemic proportions. The whole town threatening to take their money elsewhere. Ohhh wait let's punish business owners here. No wait let's just report every single incident even those of little or no consequence. Ohhhhhh I heard sirens. We're all going to leave.

Let me assure you that there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Violent crime is increasing daily all over the world. In the United states many counties have cut the police budget by 50%. That's just the beginning.

There are no safe places. None. So, I and obviously a number of others have chosen to take our chances here.

Fear does terrible things to peoples minds, in fact most M.D.s will tell you that people become incapable of making rational decisions. So, let's all just calm down, think things through and make our plans accordingly.

Will we add additional security measures, you bet. Are we going up north to face equally lousy situations up there, NO.

One last thing, google translate has made a bad situation worse. The translations have had people halfway out of their minds thinking three people were killed in La Cristina, a gringa was killed in Chapala, and much worse.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of foreigners who do not understand the language reading all this crap. It is not helping anyone.

As for TOB, it has been very badly managed,as usual and while they're very quick to ban anyone who even defends themselves, to my knowledge they have done absolutely nothing to quell this rising tide of utter rubbish which has taken over that board completely.

Hocks had the right answer, a holiday in Detroit.

by Parker Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:00 am

raqueteer wrote:
Solovino wrote:Some of the comments on this thread are ridiculous. Calling the people who are leaving wussies and then posturing about how fearless you are. What a bunch of crap. If someone isn't comfortable because of what they perceive as a threat to their personal safety and decides to live somewhere else, who is anyone else to criticize or deride that decision?
Whether those fears are based in reality or a figment of their imaginations
Life is short and we all have the right to live it as contentedly as we can manage. . The same goes for those who choose to stay in their adopted country.

I'm sorry Solo, but I disagree with you on this. Not about feeling more comfortable elsewhere, that is an individual choice. Clearly people, particularly on TOB have reacted very badly to an incident, one which has been pretty rare in the past. In 12 years here I can count a handful of murders of foreigners, as in an average of about one every two years.. The level of scaremongering over this past few days has reached epidemic proportions. The whole town threatening to take their money elsewhere. Ohhh wait let's punish business owners here. No wait let's just report every single incident even those of little or no consequence. Ohhhhhh I heard sirens. We're all going to leave.

Let me assure you that there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Violent crime is increasing daily all over the world. In the United states many counties have cut the police budget by 50%. That's just the beginning.

There are no safe places. None. So, I and obviously a number of others have chosen to take our chances here.

Fear does terrible things to peoples minds, in fact most M.D.s will tell you that people become incapable of making rational decisions. So, let's all just calm down, think things through and make our plans accordingly.

Will we add additional security measures, you bet. Are we going up north to face equally lousy situations up there, NO.

One last thing, google translate has made a bad situation worse. The translations have had people halfway out of their minds thinking three people were killed in La Cristina, a gringa was killed in Chapala, and much worse.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of foreigners who do not understand the language reading all this crap. It is not helping anyone.

As for TOB, it has been very badly managed,as usual and while they're very quick to ban anyone who even defends themselves, to my knowledge they have done absolutely nothing to quell this rising tide of utter rubbish which has taken over that board completely.

Hocks had the right answer, a holiday in Detroit.

You’re both correct and it really depends on the individual. IMHO, most people have other agendas that one’s not aware of, so for them, any reason becomes the “final straw” so to speak. Don’t underestimate others; it’s surprising how they can step up to the plate if they feel the need.

by CanuckBob Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:41 am

I think Solo's main point was that if someone chooses to leave they shouldn't be called "pussies" or belittled for their choice......

by johninajijic Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:04 am

raqueteer wrote:
Solovino wrote:Some of the comments on this thread are ridiculous. Calling the people who are leaving wussies and then posturing about how fearless you are. What a bunch of crap. If someone isn't comfortable because of what they perceive as a threat to their personal safety and decides to live somewhere else, who is anyone else to criticize or deride that decision?
Whether those fears are based in reality or a figment of their imaginations
Life is short and we all have the right to live it as contentedly as we can manage. . The same goes for those who choose to stay in their adopted country.

I'm sorry Solo, but I disagree with you on this. Not about feeling more comfortable elsewhere, that is an individual choice. Clearly people, particularly on TOB have reacted very badly to an incident, one which has been pretty rare in the past. In 12 years here I can count a handful of murders of foreigners, as in an average of about one every two years.. The level of scaremongering over this past few days has reached epidemic proportions. The whole town threatening to take their money elsewhere. Ohhh wait let's punish business owners here. No wait let's just report every single incident even those of little or no consequence. Ohhhhhh I heard sirens. We're all going to leave."

Let me assure you that there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Violent crime is increasing daily all over the world. In the United states many counties have cut the police budget by 50%. That's just the beginning.

There are no safe places. None. So, I and obviously a number of others have chosen to take our chances here.

Fear does terrible things to peoples minds, in fact most M.D.s will tell you that people become incapable of making rational decisions. So, let's all just calm down, think things through and make our plans accordingly.

Will we add additional security measures, you bet. Are we going up north to face equally lousy situations up there, NO.

One last thing, google translate has made a bad situation worse. The translations have had people halfway out of their minds thinking three people were killed in La Cristina, a gringa was killed in Chapala, and much worse.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of foreigners who do not understand the language reading all this crap. It is not helping anyone.

As for TOB, it has been very badly managed,as usual and while they're very quick to ban anyone who even defends themselves, to my knowledge they have done absolutely nothing to quell this rising tide of utter rubbish which has taken over that board completely.

Hocks had the right answer, a holiday in Detroit.

You are 10,000 percent correct in your post above!!!

Your quote " Clearly people, particularly on TOB have reacted very badly to an incident, one which has been pretty rare in the past. In 12 years here I can count a handful of murders of foreigners, as in an average of about one every two years.. The level of scaremongering over this past few days has reached epidemic proportions. The whole town threatening to take their money elsewhere. Ohhh wait let's punish business owners here. No wait let's just report every single incident even those of little or no consequence. Ohhhhhh I heard sirens. We're all going to leave." Who cares LEAVE!!!

Too much made of these incidents by posters here of a few incidences. Did the people on these boards go nuts when this happens 100 fold in their Towns and Cities in the US? No they didn't. There's too much time on some peoples hands. There are NO SAFE PLACES anywhere in the world.

And what's the outcome of all these postings and scaremongering? To say the least no business in restaurants and keeping NOB types from coming down, thus damaging the Mexican economy. No business, more robberies. WAKE UP. Their not coming this year folks. Nuevo Posada laid off half their staff.

And what's worse from all this is trashing the values or real estate and keeping Realtors from selling houses.

Enough is enough. When will you people wake up?

by viajero Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:54 am

martygraw wrote:
simpsca wrote:I'm not leaving but I do have lots of friends either leaving because of crime or trying to sell and leave. I don't plan to leave, so Bob there will be some bargains when you get here.

And PS Kip I don't go out to eat at night because it is not safe - the cartels threw a grenade into Ajijic Steak House a few weeks ago when the Federales were chasing them west toward Jocotopec. Night is when most of the cartel movement and hits take place.

Carolyn I know you mean well but the cartel or whomever did not throw a grenade into the steak hous that night. A grenade was thrown but it landed on the caraterra and bounced into the parking lot, not in the steak house. Please in the future if you are going to coment get you facts right.

New dress code at Ajijic Steak House:flak jackets and ties required,overheard at another table (mesero there's a grenade in my soup)como se dice INCOMING en español?
Chris

by David Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:58 am

Not funny at all.

by johninajijic Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:04 am

viajero wrote:
martygraw wrote:
simpsca wrote:I'm not leaving but I do have lots of friends either leaving because of crime or trying to sell and leave. I don't plan to leave, so Bob there will be some bargains when you get here. I can assure you no one is in a hurry to sell, so no bargains.

And PS Kip I don't go out to eat at night because it is not safe - the cartels threw a grenade into Ajijic Steak House a few weeks ago when the Federales were chasing them west toward Jocotopec. Night is when most of the cartel movement and hits take place.

Don't go out to eat at night because it's not safe. Total rubbish. Time for the scaredy cats to move back NOB.

Carolyn I know you mean well but the cartel or whomever did not throw a grenade into the steak hous that night. A grenade was thrown but it landed on the caraterra and bounced into the parking lot, not in the steak house. Please in the future if you are going to coment get you facts right.

Carolyn is too busy posting her Lakeside Events to get her facts straight. And the grenade wasn't thrown into the steak house parking lot. It was thrown into the new Arroyo next to the new Pescaderia.

New dress code at Ajijic Steak House:flak jackets and ties required,overheard at another table (mesero there's a grenade in my soup)como se dice INCOMING en español?
Chris

Definitely, NOT FUNNY. What a sick sense of humor!!! Jerk!!!

by oncesubtle Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:12 am

Dang, we missed the memo about the dress code. We had dinner there Thursday evening and enjoyed the company of the other diners sitting near us and at no time was the grenade incident or crime in general even mentioned. I guess they didn't get the memo either. The steaks were as good as the service and we'll be back next Thursday armed with a healthy appetite.

by hound dog Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:53 am

kipissippi wrote:Does anyone have some kind of idea of how many people have left because of the violence? I would imagine mostly renters...but just curious.

I don´t think, Kip, that it is so much people leaving as people deferring the decision to move here or deciding not to move here at all. As we´ve stated before, we have lived here as homeowners for some ten years and really like this area. No chance we would leave here under these circumstances but no chance we would choose this area were we retiring today. That´s the killer - not people leaving in great numbers - especially property owners, although I would expect renters with no real financial stake in the community to leave over the next few months as they discern the opportunity to get the hell out of here.

Properties at Lakeside remain greatly overpriced because homeowners here are generally not burdened by mortgage debt so refuse to lower prices to reasonable sums. We don´t care as we have no plans to sell and leave and even if we did decide to sell and leave, we could easily recoup our investment of ten years ago which is why we limited our initial home investment amount to a sum of money that did not render us house poor. In my opinion, it is still too soon to buy real estate here but if I were in the market, I would drive a very hard bargain. Eventually, homeowners will realize that they are not going to make a killing on their real property investments for several reasons including crime here and the economic catastrophe in the U.S. which wiped out home equities up there. Add to that the fact that you can buy real estate in many sunbelt areas in the U.S. for a fraction of what you would have Paid in 2000 and Lakeside is no bargain by a long shot.

If I were to decide to move here during these turbulent times, I would definitely rent and lay low until these morons lower their prices to reasonable levels.

By the way, we consider it entirely incorrect to assert that crime is no worse here than it has been in recent memory. It is much worse here than when we arrived in 2001. Much worse and the crime that is occurring is much more violent generally speaking. There is a breakdown in civility and law enforcement - always weak and incompetent - can´t even begin to handle this new wave of criminality. Lock your doors and turn on that alarm.

by viajero Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:55 am

johninajijic wrote:
viajero wrote:
martygraw wrote:
simpsca wrote:I'm not leaving but I do have lots of friends either leaving because of crime or trying to sell and leave. I don't plan to leave, so Bob there will be some bargains when you get here. I can assure you no one is in a hurry to sell, so no bargains.

And PS Kip I don't go out to eat at night because it is not safe - the cartels threw a grenade into Ajijic Steak House a few weeks ago when the Federales were chasing them west toward Jocotopec. Night is when most of the cartel movement and hits take place.

Don't go out to eat at night because it's not safe. Total rubbish. Time for the scaredy cats to move back NOB.

Carolyn I know you mean well but the cartel or whomever did not throw a grenade into the steak hous that night. A grenade was thrown but it landed on the caraterra and bounced into the parking lot, not in the steak house. Please in the future if you are going to coment get you facts right.

Carolyn is too busy posting her Lakeside Events to get her facts straight. And the grenade wasn't thrown into the steak house parking lot. It was thrown into the new Arroyo next to the new Pescaderia.

New dress code at Ajijic Steak House:flak jackets and ties required,overheard at another table (mesero there's a grenade in my soup)como se dice INCOMING en español?
Chris

Definitely, NOT FUNNY. What a sick sense of humor!!! Jerk!!!

Lighten up guys,I just found the blase attitude of one poster telling the other poster that a grenade in the parking lot was way different than a grenade in the restaurant rather amusing.
John I have a half acre lot with a doublewide on the outskirts of Barstow,CA wall to wall shag carpeting,formica countertops and a swamp cooler,needs a little TLC.You can pm me if your interested in a trade.
Chris

by hound dog Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:02 am

John I have a half acre lot with a doublewide on the outskirts of Barstow,CA wall to wall shag carpeting,formica countertops and a swamp cooler,needs a little TLC.You can pm me if your interested in a trade.
Chris

Hold on, Chris:

Don´t undersell that Barstow trailer with a straight-up trade. Demand a year´s worth of free breakfast coupons at Salvador´s including all the Bloody Marys you can drink.

by roni Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:51 am

How many are moving to safer areas in Mexico?

by SnowDaddy Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:55 am

CanuckBob wrote:
hockables wrote:perhaps folks would feel better after a vacation...

next summer... book yourselves two months in beautiful, sunny, downtown detroit....

then ya'll be singing Dorothy's Praise... " there's no place like home "

How about downtown Winnipeg Hocks? Don't be selling Canada short now...........

Hey, what's wrong with downtown Winnipeg? cept for the fact that it is freakin, I mean major freakin cold. BUT, I gotta tell ya the women in Winterpeg know how to keep the fellas WARM...spent 6 loving years there, but it was freakin cold, and I mean freakin COLD...

by Mainecoons Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:06 pm

roni wrote:How many are moving to safer areas in Mexico?

This used to be considered a safe area. So did Monterrey. Why would one think that some place that is safe today would not be safe tomorrow?

Nope, we're not moving.

by CheenaGringo Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:11 pm

Quoting Roni: "How many are moving to safer areas in Mexico?"

If one follows the line of thinking expressed on this and other forums - just how would one determine where that place would be? The "prevailing wisdom" has been that Guadlajara and the Lake Chapala areas have been safe for years but that has turned in a relatively short period of time. Who is to say that won't happen in some other area currently deemed safe?

by roni Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:16 pm

CheenaGringo wrote:Quoting Roni: "How many are moving to safer areas in Mexico?"

If one follows the line of thinking expressed on this and other forums - just how would one determine where that place would be? The "prevailing wisdom" has been that Guadlajara and the Lake Chapala areas have been safe for years but that has turned in a relatively short period of time. Who is to say that won't happen in some other area currently deemed safe?

Yucatan state is pretty safe.

by CanuckBob Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:17 pm

True, however there may also be some other warm, lower cost of living, countries not as prone to the high levels of drug trafficking and "cartel like" activity. I will use as an example Cuba and Costa Rica.

We were looking at this place before:

https://www.arenal.net/lake-arenal-hotels

by viajero Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:27 pm

hound dog wrote:John I have a half acre lot with a doublewide on the outskirts of Barstow,CA wall to wall shag carpeting,formica countertops and a swamp cooler,needs a little TLC.You can pm me if your interested in a trade.
Chris

Hold on, Chris:

Don´t undersell that Barstow trailer with a straight-up trade. Demand a year´s worth of free breakfast coupons at Salvador´s including all the Bloody Marys you can drink.

Your'e right Dawg,maybe he could throw in that Imported wheel barrow and brass door knocker to sweeten the deal.
Chris

by Sponsored content