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Ashamed to be an American

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Post by CHILLIN Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:47 pm

You are missing a whole bunch of important, and subtle, parts in between. This was one of the legendary reporter, Charles Krauthammer's, most famous pieces. Most of the liberal minds on this forum could eat you for breakfast. But I guess that makes them evil?

https://tucson.com/opinion/national/charles-krauthammer-conservatives-can-agree-that-liberals-are-stupid/article_88c69db5-56a8-5515-9140-2304c5dbec93.html

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Post by gringal Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:04 pm

I'll put it this way: Anyone who thinks liberals are both soft in the heart and in the head has little experience with reality.

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Post by ComputerGuy Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:18 pm

In Canada, at a federal level, the general consensus is that both parties (Conservative and Liberal) are exactly the same with differing views on governance and taxation. In reality, no matter which party wins the election, they are absolutely equal in their considerations of the health and well-being of the populace. Even better, they often take concepts originated by our New Democratic Party, which in the US would be considered vile, big government, socialist, communistic far-left wingnuts by the Republicans, into consideration and law. One good example: our health care system.

The concept of stupid libs and evil cons is a completely American and brain-damaged way to approach politics.

However, the Ford government being elected in Ontario recently points out just how badly some Canadians want to be stupid AND evil.
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Post by rafterbr Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:34 pm

It struck me just this morning , we have in our US Congress almost the same number of ultra liberals as we do far right conservatives. Don't really like either one as I am a moderate. If I had to choose one over the other I would choose the liberals because they are usually less violent. It would be nice if both sides were voted out and replaced by more reasonable people. Of course, this will never happen.

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Post by ComputerGuy Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:26 pm

"Usually less violent"? As in, show me where they have been violent. "More tolerant" maybe...

And just between you and me, there is no such thing as an "ultra" liberal...
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Post by slainte39 Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:05 pm

mikemcs wrote:There is an old adage that liberals think conservatives are evil and conservative think liberals are stupid. Most of you seem to be reaffirming of the latter.

An old adage by whom? ....and does that make it so? ....and did they author more "adages"?   Very Happy

I´ll chalk it up as one opinion.    lol!
Doesn´t bother me that you think I´m stupid, I¨ll just consider the source.

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Post by Zedinmexico Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:03 pm

ComputerGuy wrote:"Usually less violent"? As in, show me where they have been violent. "More tolerant" maybe...

And just between you and me, there is no such thing as an "ultra" liberal...


Liberal killed proud boy in Portland Oregon and police killed him more or less with extreme number of bullets. So ultra liberal kills ultra conservative and than conservative police hand out justice. Left and right both have nuts. I have no opinion but I do know nuts when I see them.

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Post by ComputerGuy Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:17 pm

He was talking about members of Congress, not nutbars in the streets. Even so my comment applies. Who is always rabble-rousing? Not libs, hardly ever. And I would say not most conservatives. But ultra right-wing nutcases? Oh, yeah.

And I, for one, rarely make sweeping condemnations of entire groups of people, like some on "the other side" just love to do.
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Post by lakeside7 Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:32 pm

Just an observation....The Black population in the USA 44m.The population of France 66m. the United Kingdom 65m. Italy 60m.Canada 35m? The number of voters who voted for Trump 74m.
Can you really dismiss this group of 74m people as “irrelevant ” Yes Trump has turned like a rogue elephant and yes his time has expired

BUT...Now how do you Canacks feel about the Executive Order to shut down (again) the Keystone Line Project

For myself how the Canadians can feel so smug and virtuous when the Tar Sands is the most unfriendly climate project in NA is beyond me. It's a dirty hi sulfur content oil that takes a lot of money to extract and when oil falls below 60 cents a barrel they lose money. Just how smart are you guys??

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Post by ComputerGuy Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:53 pm

Who said they were irrelevant? When? Where?
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Post by rafterbr Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:33 pm

ComputerGuy wrote:"Usually less violent"? As in, show me where they have been violent. "More tolerant" maybe...

And just between you and me, there is no such thing as an "ultra" liberal...

You seem to forget about the liberal terrorist group ANTIFA and the liberal terrorists in Portland who just burned the democratic office calling Biden bad names. Also Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are Liberals. AOC and her squad are ultra liberals.

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Post by mudgirl Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:38 pm

rafterbr wrote:
ComputerGuy wrote:"Usually less violent"? As in, show me where they have been violent. "More tolerant" maybe...

And just between you and me, there is no such thing as an "ultra" liberal...

You seem to forget about the liberal terrorist group ANTIFA and the liberal terrorists in Portland who just burned the democratic office calling Biden bad names. Also Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are Liberals. AOC and her squad are ultra liberals.

There is no "liberal terrorist group ANTIFA". I guess you fall for right wing BS -hardly makes you a moderate.
Antifa is a shortened form of "antifascist" and was term that was coined in WWII regarding the Italian anti-fascist fighters. There is no such organization as Antifa in the US, just individuals who oppose facism. If you say you are against antifa, you are saying you support facism.

Liberal terrorists just burned the Portland Democratic offices? Uh, no. The people who did that have not been publicly identified by the police. Where exactly do you get your news?


Last edited by mudgirl on Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RickS Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:41 pm

The word Antifa is thrown around a lot, often meaning different things. An interesting read for me is:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
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Post by mattoleriver Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:23 pm

Now let's see, the leaders of the march were dressed in black, they carried large banners covered in anarchist symbols and the lead banner said "We are ungovernable". Yep, sounds like anti-fascists! This week they were dressed as anarchists, last week they were dressed as Proud Boys, next week maybe they'll dress as Cub Scouts. They're a pretty crafty bunch of terrorists!
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Post by ComputerGuy Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:56 pm

rafterbr wrote:
ComputerGuy wrote:"Usually less violent"? As in, show me where they have been violent. "More tolerant" maybe...

And just between you and me, there is no such thing as an "ultra" liberal...

You seem to forget about the liberal terrorist group ANTIFA  and the liberal terrorists in Portland who just burned the democratic office calling Biden bad names.  Also Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are Liberals.  AOC and her squad are ultra liberals.

That is such a BS conspiracy-laced lack-of-insight bunch of comments. I can rip it apart on every level. First, it was right-wing nutcases in Portland, not 'liberal terrorists'. Second, Antifa is a mostly made-up Trumpty Dump concept, about a completely unorganized bunch of individuals and if ANY of them are troublemakers it is because they are simply another bunch who wants to display their anger by being stupid. Do you even know what the term antifa means?

Third, yes, Warren and Sanders are liberals.... how did you ever figure that one out? And I say again, the only definition of "ultra liberal" that works is in the mind of people like you.

You know, you've been sketchy with some of your comments here for awhile, but this time you've really crossed the line over into NeverNeverLand. I won't be responding to your special flavour or horseshit again.
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Post by rafterbr Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:30 pm

Well Computer Guy if you are going to criticize me the least you could do is get your facts straight. Both the media and police reported the riots were started by a hundred Antifa thugs. As for the ultra liberals both Clyburn and Biden reported the squad and their defund the police remarks cost them seats in congress. I am proud to be a supporter of President Biden and Represenative Clyburn. I use to enjoy your restaurant remarks, too bad about your intolerance to other peoples views.

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Post by mudgirl Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:58 pm

Duplicate post deleted by poster


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Post by mudgirl Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:00 pm

mudgirl wrote:[quote="rafterbr" Both the media and police reported the riots were started by a hundred Antifa thugs.

No they didn't.
"Law enforcement did not comment on the nature or political agenda of the protests.

But the violence and vandalism emerged on a day when several far-left demonstrations were planned to put pressure on the new administration to swiftly introduce immigration, racial justice and policing reforms."

"Emerged on a day when several far-left demonstrations were planned" doesn't mean those on the far left were responsible for the vandalism. That would remain to be seen. Unless you assume that people are guilty until proven guilty.

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Post by ComputerGuy Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:12 pm

Exactly: https://ktvz.com/news/crime-courts/2021/01/20/protesters-gather-damage-democratic-headquarters-in-portland/

Carrying anti-Biden and anti-police placards. Hardly antifa. Someone sure didn't get their facts straight, and it were not me. And to stoop to using the word "intolerance" about me is about as intolerant as one can get.
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Post by Zedinmexico Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:57 am

Never met an Antifa person in Seattle or Portland. Did meet a hell of a lot of left wing nutters of various flavors. This is nothing new for Seattle/Portland. Remember the WTO riots? Same folks. We called them anarchists (new definition). Met lots of them in Eugene Oregon and they travel. They use to destroy houses being fixed up to keep rents low in the neighborhood they lived in. They are every bit as bad as the proud boys. One nutter can do thousands and thousands of damage in five minutes. I doubt if the majority of demonstrators are anarchists but thats what people seem to think. Yes Seattle law enforcement is a mess and the mayor is not effective but nuts are on both sides including the police. Bellevue accross the lake had Anarchists show up they robbed the mall and the police took pictures and took back stolen material and over time arrested most of them and charged them with felonies. Amazing the difference between Seattle and Bellevue much more than one mile. The nuts never came back.

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Post by ComputerGuy Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:18 am

Anarchists and so-called left-wing nutters are on completely opposite sides. I am also unclear as to the definition of left-wing nutter.
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Post by Zedinmexico Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:41 pm

ComputerGuy wrote:Anarchists and so-called left-wing nutters are on completely opposite sides. I am also unclear as to the definition of left-wing nutter.


The same as a right wing nutter. Same methods different docterine. Anarchists use to be people who decided to not follow the rules. Modern Anarchists are violent destructive people. Most of the ones I knew in Eugene were leftists.

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Post by ComputerGuy Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:04 pm

I just don't see left-wing violence anywhere, organized or not. Responses to attacks by rightist extremists and cops in certain cities does result in fighting, but who's fault is that? An anarchist, modern or not, is someone who wants to get rid of all authority, and to self govern. That is not the definition of a so-called left-wing nutter.
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Post by CHILLIN Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:00 pm

I have known a lot of so called anarchists, mostly punks, college attending punks. They are all about attitude, and I don' t know why, but the college girls love these bad boys. They are unable to sustain any decent debate about who they are, and what they are all about. Not suprising since most library ban any books to do with this subject.

This song by the Pixies, written at the Uniiv of Mass sums it up for me. It is a pose, a trick to scare the newbies, a trick to feign intelligence at a profound level. Yah right!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jWqRmceG2J8
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Post by ComputerGuy Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:26 pm

The punk movement was all about anarchy, as you know. Some punkers were true to their calling; many were not. But where are you from, Chillin? I've never heard of a book being banned because it was about anarchy. In fact, in Canada, I cannot remember a book being banned in my lifetime.
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Post by CHILLIN Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:13 pm

I remember Joey Shithead, godfather of Canadian punk, DOA. I went to a lot of their shows. My friends in London and Manchester liked them a lot. He is now a city councillor for a suburb of Vancouver, called Burnaby. Here he performs a duo with the Mayor of Burnaby, extolling the benefits of social distancing.

Yes, banning is the wrong word. Not many public libraries would shelf books about anarchy theory and history. There is no interest. Most self declared anarchists I have met I doubt if they even read, much less discuss Marx and Engel's theories about dialectic materialism. As I mentioned before, I learnt about Soviet and Chinese political theory, and we couldn' t resist talking in slogans and diatribes of these two political forces. A pub game. Lucky, no CIA in Britain!

https://music.mxdwn.com/2020/05/03/news/d-o-a-s-lead-singer-joe-keithley-aka-joey-shithead-is-now-a-councillor-in-british-columbia-shares-new-song-were-all-in-this-together-with-citys-mayor/

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